I dont get spot.

[moritheil]

He's saying it's not a Spot check in that case: "The Spot skill is used primarily to detect characters or creatures who are hiding."

On the other hand: "Sometimes a creature isn’t intentionally hiding but is still difficult to see, so a successful Spot check is necessary to notice it."

So, why is the creature difficult to see?

Because it's far away (-1 spot DC per 10 feet.) While in real life one can easily spot a person crouching at the other end of a football field, in DnD this is a dicey proposition.

Nyeshet, there is a difference between detail recognition and presence recognition.

 

[Umbran]

Because it's far away (-1 spot DC per 10 feet.) While in real life one can easily spot a person crouching at the other end of a football field, in DnD this is a dicey proposition.

Only if the DM chooses to take "crouching out in the open with no cover" to be "hiding".

Personally, I'd probably assume this was unsuccessful unless the beastie in question had some variation of the "Hide in plain sight" ability.

 

[Notmousse]

I found the easiest way to HR it is -1 per 40' for distances when looking for people *not* hiding as they're being obvious.

The -1 per 10' always struck me as something for hidden characters/items, and not so obvious actions.

 

[Question]

I dont mean more like trying to spot someone standing far away but not hiding, but rather the details. For example is that image on the horizon a orc or a human?

 

[KarinsDad]

Only if the DM chooses to take "crouching out in the open with no cover" to be "hiding".

Personally, I'd probably assume this was unsuccessful unless the beastie in question had some variation of the "Hide in plain sight" ability.

But, the Spot skill itself discusses observing things that might be difficult to see. Difficult should not only apply to concealment, but also to distance.

Unless the contrast is great, it might be difficult to see a crouching person at 300 feet away if one is just casually looking in that direction, but easy to see if an ally makes a comment about the crouching person.

How else, other than a Spot roll, does a DM handle spotting something that is in plain sight at a considerable distance, but just has not yet been seen?

 

[moritheil]

Only if the DM chooses to take "crouching out in the open with no cover" to be "hiding".

Personally, I'd probably assume this was unsuccessful unless the beastie in question had some variation of the "Hide in plain sight" ability.

So do you never apply penalties when determining whether or not someone can see something in the distance? For example, what prevents someone from seeing whether or not a guru is meditating at the top of a mountain, when that mountain is clearly visible from a city three days' journey away? (Okay, that one can be covered under encounter spotting rules, but technically that is not an encounter - so one cannot consistently argue that Spot can only be used for spotting hiding creatures and at the same time use encounter rules to handle a situation that is not an encounter.)

It seems that the use of some distance modifiers is necessary. Otherwise, what can be seen at a distance becomes an arbitrary DM ruling with only line of sight as a firmly established fact.

 

[Twowolves]

It seems that the use of some distance modifiers is necessary. Otherwise, what can be seen at a distance becomes an arbitrary DM ruling with only line of sight as a firmly established fact.

Many sources use -1 per 20' for sentries posted in high places, like a crow's nest or on a high wall. Some use -1 per 40' for things like binoculars/scopes. Neither seem out of line, as far as just negating the distance penalty.

Likewise, I think some sort of bonus is in order for those objects/targets flailing around or otherwise moving as opposed to standing still. Or else consider someone standing still as rolling a 1 on his "hide" check.

 

[Quasqueton]

I can easily see the sun, and it is 93 million miles away. I can even see it when it has full concealment behind clouds. I can easily see the moon in shadowy illumination (night), and it is 239 thousand miles away.

Quasqueton

 

[moritheil]

I can easily see the sun, and it is 93 million miles away. I can even see it when it has full concealment behind clouds. I can easily see the moon in shadowy illumination (night), and it is 239 thousand miles away.

Quasqueton

I fail to see what that has to do with a discussion of the distance at which one can spot movement by monsters. The scale is totally different; even a Colossal creature's scale cannot be compared to the size of a planet, moon, or sun. Yes, you can see the sun from very far away - but can you see the Mars Rover on Mars from such a distance?

If it really bugs you, you can just assign such bodies (assuming they exist in your campaign) +5000 size modifiers to be seen. More importantly, you are making the assumption that things should work in DnD as they do in real life.

 

[Twowolves]

I can easily see the sun, and it is 93 million miles away. I can even see it when it has full concealment behind clouds. I can easily see the moon in shadowy illumination (night), and it is 239 thousand miles away.

Quasqueton

Ah, but you are failing to take into consideration their size penalties to Hide. That and being facetious.