I don't know anything

[Riastlin]

Aye, as an avenger in melee, you should rarely miss. If you want to make it even more likely, play an elf. The elven pursuing avenger in my game is simply put, amazing. High perception, pretty decent defenses. Rarely misses. And, has the massive mobility to get out of a jam if need be.

Sure, their individual hit numbers won't usually be as high as some other classes, but the fact that they will rarely miss makes up for it. I've seen the avenger go an entire session with only 1 or 2 misses, and that's not just with easy encounters.

That being said, I do think avengers give up quite a bit to go into ranged combat (unless they pick up a feat or two).

 

[Randomthoughts]

I don't know the powers, feats or skills, so I have no idea what I might choose from - my buddy has the books so I have to wait to get to his house to make those selections. So what I'm looking for is tips like what stats should I focus on, what is the basic mentality of an Avenger (high damage, good to hit, highly mobile) and if there's anything special about selecting Bahamut over anything else.

Also I have tenatively said I'll be human, but the GM is hinting I should go dwarf. Would any one race have a significant advantage over any other. Finally if anyone does have any specifics on the starting powers for level 1 please let me know. Thanks for any help you can offer.

I've played a Deva Retribution Avenger for approximately 5 levels in heroic. Here are some observations and advice I hope you find helpful; since I don't have my PC sheet in front of me, they focus more on playstyle and strategic approaches to an Avenger:

* Definitely read the CharOp board link. Really good advice. As @mneme said, WIS is your most important stat, followed by either DEX or INT. This depends on your Censure (below).

* Choosing your Censure is the most important decision you can make; it largely determines your secondary stat and gameplay. Censure of Pursuit focuses on DEX while Retribution focuses on INT. I'm most familiar with Retribution of course, but I've analyzed and seen in action the Pursuit Censure. I'm not familiar with the Unity one.

* I found the gameplay for an Avenger to be weird, but interesting. It's something you'll either get used to or you'll hate it. For example, a Retribution Avenger wants to be hit by everyone except their Oath Enemy (since each hits gives INT mod dam which accumulates). Pursuit Avengers want their Oath Enemy to run away (and punishes them when they do voluntarily).

But as mentioned in the CharOp boards, the Censure is more a control rather than a means of more damage. DMs will want to avoid hitting a Retribution Avenger with anyone other than the Oath Enemy...unless he can gang up on you and drop you (or your Oath Enemy is far away). DMs will want to avoid running away from a Pursuit Avenger...unless you put the monster in a position where it voluntarily wants to run away (forced movement will not trigger the Censure).

* Here's how it translates into gameplay: A Pursuit Avenger hits the flanks and tries to isolate/create pockets where their Oath Enemy is alone. You don't want to jump into the middle of things.

With Retribution Avengers, things could get interesting. I played him like a freaking terminator...jumping right into the middle of (ideally minion-heavy) crowds. The ideal situation would be a bunch of low-damage minions pinging away at you so you can translate that damage into a massive hit vs the Oath Enemy. Problem is, DMs probably wouldn't fall for that. Consequently, you might be able to just run around with impunity...unless the DM finds you in a situation where he can disable you (say stun) or drop you, so you can't take advantage of that massive damage.

Again, weird playstyle.

* Fluff-wise, I found the Avenger to be very, very flavorful. Oath Enmity is just a great power, mechanics-wise and story-wise. If only the DM would allow you to capitalize on that....

* Finally, I would agree that Avengers aren't the top (or near the top) of the Striker food chain. I did feel overshadowed by the Ranger's big numbers. I also was unlucky; I only rolled one crit through all 5 levels. My approach to this was to diversify my build into multiclass Cleric and get some leader abilities.

EDIT: I was going to post more stuff on beginning powers. But after re-reading the CharOp link, I would only be rehashing its excellent advice.

Also check out some of the new themes - Samurai and Sohei - if your GM allows it.

 

[SensoryThought]

Great post.
I like the Deva race and it adds flavor to any divine character.

I had another look at the Avenger fluff and I guess if the campaign was build around a good vs evil battle with you vs a divine enemy like in the class description, it could be a lot of fun. Not so much if the rest of the group are less invested in your avenging ways.

I certainly agree that DMs control of NPCs would have a huge impact on the efficacy of an avenger, moreso than other classes. I also find the playstyle required to be effective makes you put yourself at greater risk via taking damage or isolation compared to other strikers.

 

[Riastlin]

I certainly agree that DMs control of NPCs would have a huge impact on the efficacy of an avenger, moreso than other classes. I also find the playstyle required to be effective makes you put yourself at greater risk via taking damage or isolation compared to other strikers.

To be fair, there is some truth to this, though much moreso with the second sentence than the first. Certainly the avenger can deal more damage when the DM "cooperates" but the fact that the avenger almost never misses makes up for the smaller individual damage numbers. However, the avenger does put herself at risk and I can certainly attest to the fact that an avenger can go down quickly if the right situation occurs. However, particularly as the avenger levels up, there are also a lot of "get out of trouble" powers available. Plus the avenger is likely to have pretty good Will and Reflex scores, and even AC won't be too bad most of the time given their secondaries.

 

[Unwise]

I actually like dwarf Avengers, one of my players themed one around being a Trollslayer from Warhammer and it really worked well. His more magical powers came from the Oath Runes he had carved into himself and his divine powers were more to do with the power granted by his powerful oaths than from Morodin.

It plays a lot like a Trollslayer too. An Avenger is at his best when he is soloing the biggest nastiest thing around. Generally speaking, the group moves to engage the enemy, the Avenger then flies/teleports/shifts/phases past all of the enemies and jumps onto the boss at the back.

By the time the party has battled its way through all the henchmen, they reach the boss only to find both him and the Avenger laying in a pool of each others blood. It is an exciting play style that lends itself well to RPing somebody with a deathwish.

Dwarves may not have exactly perfect stats, however their ability to use Dwarven Weapon Training, is worth a bit, as is their ability to use second wind as a minor action. You will take a lot of beatings, so being able to self-heal without stopping the attack is pretty important. Other races are good too, I would say choose the one you like the look and theme of the most.

The one feat you really want early on is Unarmored Agility. It gives a +2 feat bonus to AC which really helps the survivability. The ability to use an Executioners Axe is of course awesome too, even better if from Dwarven Weapon Training. Githzerai will want a Full-Blade though.

P.S. Are you sold on the Bahamut stuff? It's just that Avengers lend themselves well to the more shadowy aspects of a religion. Maybe a cult focused on the justice aspect without much regard for the law? Avengers of the Raven Queen are fun, hunting down people who have cheated death in some way.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I never really 'got' the Avenger, myself. I've built them as pre-gens for con games, and the players who chose them had a blast, so I guess they're pretty decent.

It's one of those little things that kinda mystifies me about 4e. The whole time I was building this character, I could not think how it might be played in an interesting/fun/effective way, but I picked powers for each level and feats and items and so forth (mostly by concept - a 'sea elf' Avenger of Mellora), and players - both one who was familiar with the class and one who'd never even read it, took the sheet, looked at the cards, and rocked with it. At 16th level, when the game /is/ getting pretty complicated.

The way abilities are just cut up into bite-sized powers makes 4e surprisingly accessible.

(Now that I think of it, I had the player-side experience myself, I was handed a 21st level Artificer out of the blue, having never read the class an knowning nothing about it except there was controversey over a power that added brutal to weapons, and I was able to play it pretty well and have a good time with it. It helped that I'd played other leaders, I suppose.)


Anyway, everyone I've seen play an Avenger has been (a) reasonably effective and (b) thoroughly pleased with the experience. I'm guessing you'll be OK.