D&D 5E I don't like Dragonborn: Please stay away from D&D Next.

[AngryMojo]

We've got the "core 4", a couple half-breeds, one racial variant, two short races, and two "exotic" races. Really that's not anything close to bloat, that's a fair bit of diversity.

Considering their popularity, I think drow should make that list as well. I'm not a fan of them as PC's, but I think they're a perfect example of a race that may be maligned by veteran players while appealing to new blood.

I don't like Drizzt, but he provides an excellent gateway into D&D.

 

[Minigiant]

I'll just put it this way

5E/D&DNext has 6 months to provide me with official rules for a player character with a breath attack, wings, claws, tails, horns, fangs, natural teleportation, natural invisibility, eye beams, unnaturally hard skin, a third eye, extra arms, hooves, or scent.

6 months or my purchases will cease.

Everything doesn't have to be in the core book but fans of non-core races shouldn't be shoved in the corner for a year.

 

[nnms]

Klingons were resigned Samurai. Almost everything is reskined from something else. So is reskining or honor which is bad?

How about instead we don't make caricatures of the history of foreign cultures as aliens or reptilians?

And even in feudal Japan, the Bushido code applied only to those who actually were part of the warrior nobility. Their entire society wasn't following the code of the warrior. If you insulted a rice farmer, he wasn't obligated to challenge you to a duel to the death. Even an ashigaru soldier wasn't obligated to follow Bushido.

Taking one aspect of one culture and extrapolating it into an entire culture to the point of absurdity is just lazy writing.

That's why I don't like Klingons and other caricatures like them.

 

[BobTheNob]

Wait...Do Dragonborn turn to stone when killed, or explode?

Look, I stood there, I held my breath till my face went blue, but I never exploded dang nam it!

 

[ForeverSlayer]

But referring to Dragonborn as "bloat" is an exceptionally biased view. If the argument states that bloat needs to be removed then the argument becomes where to draw the line between an element adding to the game more than it takes away. Your opinion is that Dragonborn are bloat, I'd imagine that many people would state otherwise. There's also a point of view out there, no doubt that states anything other than humans, elves and dwarves is bloat, does that mean halflings should get the axe as well? Personally, I don't think there needs to be much more than fifty or so monsters in the core game, so would a 300+ creature Monster Manual be considered bloat?

If bloat is defined as anything outside the core that is unnecessary, then D&D Next looks like it will be absolutely chock full of bloat. If the argument of whether or not the presence of dragonborn is worth the book space and game space it takes up, I'll refer you to the poll on this thread.

It's got nothing to do with being biased because I love drow to death but I don't think they should be a core race.

 

[Belphanior]

The problem with making races like Drow core in D&D is the fact that the game will be written with them integrated into the world. I like to use as much of the game as written as possible without having to change much. I do like default settings at times but having Dragonborn, Drow and Tieflings written into the core just means that the default is going to have them as common races.

Drow aren't Core in 4e.

There are three kinds of books for 4e: Core, Supplement, and Essentials. Drow is introduced in the Forgotten Realms book (supplement) and again in Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdom (essentials).

 

[Incenjucar]

If the game is defined strictly by what people don't like there won't be anything left to like about it.

 

[nnms]

Doesn't the proposed rarity system where people are told up front that not every race is part of every setting solve this whole issue?

 

[AngryMojo]

It's got nothing to do with being biased because I love drow to death but I don't think they should be a core race.

If that's the case, then which races do you consider bloat? Anything but humans? Anything but the big three? Anything that wasn't included in first edition?

You don't think dragonborn should be included in the PhB for reasons that you believe, likely based on your personal experiences. That's bias. It's very difficult to make an argument without bias, it's even harder to take a side of the argument without bias. The argument centers around where the line should be drawn between "core" and "non-core" when the race selection for the PhB is determined. Without extensive market research to find the point of diminishing returns of page count vs. player enjoyment, any argument or opinion of which game elements "should" or "should not" be included is a biased opinion, not a fact.

Bias isn't a bad thing, it's just a thing. And almost impossible to avoid when taking a strong stance.

Now, outside of you not liking dragonborn, why exactly do you think they shouldn't be in the PhB?

 

[underfoot007ct]

How about instead we don't make caricatures of the history of foreign cultures as aliens or reptilians?

And even in feudal Japan, the Bushido code applied only to those who actually were part of the warrior nobility. Their entire society wasn't following the code of the warrior. If you insulted a rice farmer, he wasn't obligated to challenge you to a duel to the death. Even an ashigaru soldier wasn't obligated to follow Bushido.

Taking one aspect of one culture and extrapolating it into an entire culture to the point of absurdity is just lazy writing.

That's why I don't like Klingons and other caricatures like them.

So would wu-jen/Ninja multi-class Kenku be out of the question as well?