"I don't like my Christmas present" -- do you enjoy getting treasure?

[Tallifer]

There are lots of people who don't let the PCs shop for magic items. For this reason among other things.

I think they miss the point.

That would be like disallowing people to treat themselves in life, because we should just be satisfied with gifts and hand-me-downs.

Some people love Christmas. Some people love getting presents and love even more to give presents.

Others like me could not care less. I love Christmas: the carols, the concerts, the church services, the tree and decorations, the food, the chocolate. And when I was a child I loved the toys. But most of my childhood presents sucked, and it only gets worse as you age.

Gift certificates are the best thing for people like me. (Although once again, the less limited the better. Give me one for Walmart or Amazon, not the neighbourhood shoe store which carries nothing I would wear.)

My grandmother was wise as all old people are: she just gave cash taped inside a Christmas card. Never had to figure out what was cool or what people might like. And everyone loved it. Who would dare imagine that grandma was unloving because she did not knit you a scarf or buy you a dull book?

On the other hand I recognize the thrill some people get form mysteriously wrapped presents. I suggest that dungeon masters hand out trivial but fun items for that feeling of Christmas, but that they allow players to "find" (out of character, pick) what they really want or need.

 

[Tallifer]

I like to tailor magical items to party members

Many of my dungeon masters did the same. The biggest problem was that what they thought was cool and useful was just silly or useless. Players always know their character better than the dungeon master. Furthermore what the dungeon master as a player thinks is a good tactical combination or fun thing to do, is often not what another player thinks.

I applaud the effort, but it often becomes a case wherein the recipient says, "Well, it's the thought that counts," with a polite forced smile on their disappointed face.

 

[Tallifer]

Because of this factor, if you find any magic item, regardless of what it is, it becomes special. For all you know, the +2 Flametongue you desire may not even exist in my world. One of my biggest gripes with 3.X and 4e is the ability of players to make decision regarding the magic items they can acquire, how do they know what's available? Is there a shop that just pumps these out? If that were the case, Excalibur and Sting would have been much less extraordinary. I still lovingly long for the days of the 1e artifacts that listed a couple of abilities and then had a row of blanks for the DM to fill in later. Even two identical items(in two different campaigns of course) never had the same abilities. That sense of mystery is something sorely lacking in today's games.

The character does not know anything concerning the treasure available. He is simply a hero or antihero in a mysterious world of terrible things.

The player is the divine genius behind his fate. The player is cooperating in the telling of the story. The player is asking the dungeon master to write a certain page of the story in a way such that the character finds a +2 Flametongue, because that would make the story more interesting for this player.

The dungeon master can just behave like a strict parent or omniscient narrator and railroad the story through. The players will then whine for Magick Shoppes and for the ability to melt down items into sludge which can be recycled into useful stuff. Such a dungeon master probably forbids even that, and players who want a more cooperative game should look for another game.

 

[Bedrockgames]

On the other hand I recognize the thrill some people get form mysteriously wrapped presents. I suggest that dungeon masters hand out trivial but fun items for that feeling of Christmas, but that they allow players to "find" (out of character, pick) what they really want or need.

Every group is different. As a player this would actually bother me, alot. When wishlists became common in 3E, it really disrupted the believability of setting for me as a player.

 

[the Jester]

Allowing magic item purchase is verbotten! for just this reason in my campaigns. 1st off, a player with a DMG is a no-no rule left over from my 1e days.

As an aside, this brings up the question of where magic items belong- the DMG or the PH. I suspect there would be a good correlation of people like me, who prefer no-magic-shop, fewer-magic-item environments, with the DMG answer, and a strong correlation of people who prefer wish list, purchasable items and the like with the PH answer, but that's just my instinct.

 

[was]

delete..mistakenly fed a troll

 

[darkwing]

I think the problem is especially pronounced for D&D because so much of a character's theme is item dependent. My warlord has a helm that gives bonuses to attacks I grant. My slayer has a helm that adds to charge damage. This is the way I want it and what the characters were designed for. If the DM were choosing he'd probably pick something different. In the pre-4e (aka 3.5) campaign my fighter/rogue had 5 different swords because the DM thought they were good items for the character I had. Well, they would be but I could only use one at a time and oh btw, my other items and armor were falling behind because the DM didn't think those things were as cool and fun to make as treasures.

 

[Noumenon]

So let's look at my list of things that make players in this thread excited to get treasure.

I also like to hang unto "legendary items", some great-great-dad weapon or other background item, that reveals new more powerful abilities, but not level balanced ways, but when it fits the timing best.

Or items that fit my character's style.

A +15 AC item, but it doesn't stack with anything else. (treasure that breaks the rules)

Treasure with mysterious abilities you don't understand.

Ingredients required for the player to craft what they really want. Or recipes.

"Lesser" items that get lost, used up, or destroyed – basically, temporary boosts like a Mario invincible star.

NO random treasure, for me.

Put in treasure the party knows one NPC will really want.

Just pick powered up versions of the mundane items they already chose for themselves.

Treasure that might inspire a PC to change their character, like a scimitar to make the dwarf a caliph.

Out of all of it, I think the best way to make treasure exciting is the last two. "Hey! An upgrade!" is the easiest way to intuit what kind of thing the character really wants. And stuff that might inspire a player to change their character would be really interesting. Like, a folding boat is not going to make anyone become a sailor, but a robe of bones just might make someone become a necromancer.

A lot of people get excited by the unknown and mysterious magic items. I don't think those work for me. First, those mysteries take a lot of the DM's time to design and keep track of. Second, they often never get explored, like any other plot hook. This is especially the case because identify doesn't usually work on them, leading to something where you don't know what it does and never find out.

Third, I think our group require the validation of knowing we're playing the "real" game, which is why we use core-books-only, monsters all from the MM with class levels, and rigid adherence to grapple rules. Made-up magic items feel like playing pretend. (I don't know if we're consistent about this since we do all kinds of story-game stuff like narrating why you fail and plot points.)

What do you think about the idea of not being able to sell magic items? One thing that makes items less exciting is that their worth in gp exerts a counter-pull of excitingness that limits the excitement of the item. This was the case for the oathbow. I remember having a 20% sellback instead of 50% to address this. It allowed me to put twice as many magic items in the treasure, but I'm not sure how well it worked.

 

[Thunderfoot]

The character does not know anything concerning the treasure available. He is simply a hero or antihero in a mysterious world of terrible things.

The player is the divine genius behind his fate. The player is cooperating in the telling of the story. The player is asking the dungeon master to write a certain page of the story in a way such that the character finds a +2 Flametongue, because that would make the story more interesting for this player.

The dungeon master can just behave like a strict parent or omniscient narrator and railroad the story through. The players will then whine for Magick Shoppes and for the ability to melt down items into sludge which can be recycled into useful stuff. Such a dungeon master probably forbids even that, and players who want a more cooperative game should look for another game.

Speaking of railroading, you discerned all that from my post - wow, you must be omniscient. No the point was in the old days players DIDN'T KNOW what a flametongue was. The DMG was the home of the treasure tables because if you read the DMG you understood that the tables were suggestions, not requirements.

The writing a certain magic item in to make the story more interesting for the player is BS. A player should never tell a DM anything. Why the hell would a player need any magic item to complete a character concept, unless they are trying to re-create Dritz't for the umpteen millionth time?

Of course, I believe in the old school concept of everyman to hero, not super hero to demi-god. Where the character's story is shaped by events, not the other way around.

As for disallowing melting an item, you are right, melting down magic is akin to using a Faberge Egg for an omelet. Just another way for power hungry players to break the rules and a lack of understanding that magic is special, not pedestrian.

 

[Noumenon]

"Hey! An upgrade!" is the easiest way to intuit what kind of thing the character really wants.

Although, I'm trying this right now and it doesn't feel right. I have a PC who's a warmage with a morningstar. I figure a spell storing morningstar would let express both sides of her character at once. But I fear the way this would play out in the game. "Oh, we found a spell storing morningstar. Lily, clearly this was put in here for you." I hate this feeling, whenever it seems like the DM is being merciful or nice to the players, whether I'm the on the DM or player side of the screen.

This is why the Father Christmas DM thing doesn't work, isn't it? It's Christmas where even the giver can't feel good about giving the presents, because the receiver wanted to earn things for themself. I think this is why I really prefer buying magic items to finding them: when I pay for them myself, it doesn't feel like welfare.

Also: I think the process of deciding who the treasure is for is one of the things that makes it a lot less fun to receive. First, 2 or 3 out of four players are not excited at all because they can't use the item. Then the last player or two is like "I didn't find this personally, but we're sharing out among the party so I guess I get it." It's like every magic item is a regift from a party that doesn't want it before it gets to you.