D&D 5E I gave my players too much gold

[redrick]

You're seriously comparing magic items to jewelry?

First off, the prices for magic items in the DMG are a joke. 7500gp for a 'jeweled platinum ring' but less than 5000gp for a broom that flies?!? Less than 500gp to take any weakling and make them as strong as an ogre with some gauntlets? Silliness. Either reduce art/gems by a factor of 10, or increase magic items by the same. Second, any schmuck can make a gold ring. Not anyone can make a magic one, which is why a magic shop would be an ultra high profile target. Lastly, not every 'goldsmith' is going to have a storefront shop to be robbed. Plenty of them would work with other crafters to just inlay gold into something else, like churches, temples, royal buildings, etc. Not to mention, how big was Paris compared to the rest of Europe back then? Pretty big. So sure, if you are in the biggest city in the entire kingdom, you might drop down a magic item shop. Which I am sure will have walls lined with all sorts of wonderous things right?

And then comparing the real world to a world in which people can cast magic to make themselves invisible, teleport, polymorph/shape change, use telekinesis, put people to sleep or charm them, etc? Really?

How again do you defend against this when you have a magic shop with stock values ranging from 5k to 500k? Any decent level group of adventurers could clear the place out. Let's see, they can target the silver smith, jeweler, or goldsmith and get some loot orrrrr they can target the magic shop that is full of potentially useful stuff. Hmmmmm

I'd go with [MENTION=158]Henry[/MENTION] on this. I'm not saying that a fantasy world needs to have magic shops, and I'm certainly not saying that these magic shops would have as many magic items on hand as a downtown jeweler, but the idea that security concerns alone should keep a retail outfit from selling magic items seems odd to me. Adventurers aren't the only people capable of using magic! A store selling exceptionally powerful magic items (probably a one-of-a-kind type deal, located in a major city overflowing with the 1%, maybe a fantasy Dubai) would employ exceptionally powerful security. Patrons might require some sort of official introduction, but they might also merely have to put down a substantial cash deposit and go through extensive security screening before actually getting to the show-room. I'm sure lots of golems would be on hand, as well as various enchantments protecting against teleporting. One can run a store that is "open to the public" and still have more security than a liquor store.

I've also had disreputable purveyors of magic items, whose items didn't always do what they said they'd do. I set up a "used trinket store" in the Keep on the Borderlands that sole various minor magical items. 50% of the items were actually non-magical, while many of the items had negative intrinsics that were never mentioned. (For instance, a cloak of invisibility to dark-vision that glowed bright blue in the presence of Orcs.) I didn't run with it all the way, because I felt bad for totally screwing my players over with no warning. If I were to do it again, I'd make sure that the first item failure was minor and comical, setting up idea that maybe Bob's Used Trinket Warehouse wasn't exactly on the level.

The magic supplies shop in my current town has various alchemical supplies in the main storehouse, as well as some potions of alchemical healing, and then a well-secured back room with 4 uncommon magic items. Not exactly the score of the century.

That being said, there are a lot of great ideas above about other ways to induce my player characters to spend money in flavorful ways, and I'll definitely work on some adventure ideas with that sort of thinking.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I'd go with [MENTION=158]Henry[/MENTION] on this. I'm not saying that a fantasy world needs to have magic shops, and I'm certainly not saying that these magic shops would have as many magic items on hand as a downtown jeweler, but the idea that security concerns alone should keep a retail outfit from selling magic items seems odd to me. Adventurers aren't the only people capable of using magic! A store selling exceptionally powerful magic items (probably a one-of-a-kind type deal, located in a major city overflowing with the 1%, maybe a fantasy Dubai) would employ exceptionally powerful security. Patrons might require some sort of official introduction, but they might also merely have to put down a substantial cash deposit and go through extensive security screening before actually getting to the show-room. I'm sure lots of golems would be on hand, as well as various enchantments protecting against teleporting. One can run a store that is "open to the public" and still have more security than a liquor store.

Arms dealing is probably a better analogy than jewelry/goldsmithing. Magic items have an intrinsic, utilitarian value independent of their resale value (just like arms and ammunition), and there are likely to be similar levels of legal and physical security involved. If you're postulating hundreds of thousands of gold pieces per month in transactions anyway, it shouldn't be a big deal to blow ten thousand gold or so on sprinkling little Symbols of Death/Insanity around in various strategic locations within your vault.

I can imagine that kind of thing happening in Spelljammer, where the Arcanes' sale of spelljamming helms is a major economic driver for the whole setting. I wouldn't do it in a groundling campaign though.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Exchange rate -- D&D assumes all gold coins are the same, they are not. What type of gold coin is it; dwarf, elf, human, dragon, Spanish, roman? It could be plated, drilled, mixed with other metals, it could be small in size and number of things. you just come up with an exchange rate.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Your players adventured through Castle Amber and only came away with 12K ?

If you left the monetary treasure alone, your players are terrible at finding treasure.


I did a quick treasure check on X2 to see if I was misremembering. Here is a rough treasure (monetary only) estimate:

7000 pp
72000 gp
82000 sp
60000 cp

54000 gp value in gems, jewels & misc stuff.

Each character receives 3000-18000 gp for completing the adventure (10000 gp avg.)

Holy Moly! Castle Amber is stuffed like a piggy bank.

 

[redrick]

Your players adventured through Castle Amber and only came away with 12K ?

If you left the monetary treasure alone, your players are terrible at finding treasure.


I did a quick treasure check on X2 to see if I was misremembering. Here is a rough treasure (monetary only) estimate:

7000 pp
72000 gp
82000 sp
60000 cp

54000 gp value in gems, jewels & misc stuff.

Each character receives 3000-18000 gp for completing the adventure (10000 gp avg.)

Holy Moly! Castle Amber is stuffed like a piggy bank.

Ha, well, I'll have to re-check their collective coffers. One of the players is supposed to track gold and it's quite possible that he has been somewhat remiss in his duties. I also did end up replacing some areas and we completely cut out the actual Averoigne part. (Which is too bad — I was looking forward to it, but the players were growing tired of the story and eager to be free of the castle once and for all, so I decided to fast-track things once they found the trap door to the cellar. Maybe they'll find themselves in Averoigne at some other point in the campaign, as Stephen Amber is still off wandering the multiverse on some undisclosed mission.)

It's also hard to be motivated about searching for treasure when you're finding sacks upon sacks of loot and don't think you'll ever have anywhere to spend it.

 

[ExploderWizard]

It's also hard to be motivated about searching for treasure when you're finding sacks upon sacks of loot and don't think you'll ever have anywhere to spend it.

Yeah, well when the module was written every gp was sweet sweet XP so the motivation for collecting it was not a problem.

Plus castles and keeps are expensive!

 

[Bacon Bits]

It's also hard to be motivated about searching for treasure when you're finding sacks upon sacks of loot and don't think you'll ever have anywhere to spend it.

Personally, I've found it liberating.

In 3e/4e, you found gold so you could get items so you could fight monsters so you could get gold so you could get items... etc. You never found excessive amounts of wealth in those games. You could kill a horde of goblins or a horde of demons and you'd expect to find the same level appropriate rewards. Money used to be a tool that the player used to shape his character.

Now, however, money is something your character uses to shape the campaign world. You can have a character who gives away all his wealth to the church and not be punished for it! You can have side quests to get money to finance operations or expensive spells. You can build a fortress, start an adventuring guild, build a tower, etc. You can actually have a character now whose goal is to become disgustingly rich, and actually succeed because he's not feeding every gp he scrapes together back into his equipment. Money is no longer a means to reach 20th level. It's not tied to game progression anymore. That means that it can be it's own reward. It's a means for your character to live better or improve himself or herself. You don't have 20th level murderhobos with 5gp in their purse but more wealth strapped to them than exists in half the continent of Faerun. I mean, you could, but that would be the kind of game you'd want to be playing then.

"What do I do with 50,000gp from a dragon's horde?" is no longer a question for the player. It's a question for the character. And that's an amazing improvement for a role-playing game. It's one of the things that they had right in 2e.

 

[steeldragons]

I'll chime in with the "I don't see the problem" crowd. 12k is hardly "too much." Maybe it allows for some good times and living comfortably for a month (presuming the group won't stay put for more than a month in-game time).

Assuming your group is of the "evenly divided" mind, that's 3,000 per PC in a 4 PC group.

Assuming replacements/purchases/repairing basic adventuring equipment, armor, weapons, spell components, etc... and "comfortable" (if not extravagant) living for a few weeks to a month, even a few minor/depletable magic items [potions, a scroll or two] will eat up a small amount.

"Excavation" Tax: Before they're even buying equipment, to get into the city (if it's a moderately sized city), officials are going to be looking for their cut. Say 10% of "acquired" loot.

"Open Carry" Tax: If the city they're in has a modicum of law and order, openly carrying weapons is likely reserved for the nobility/officials. You want to walk around armed? 50gp per person...except maaaybe for staff carrying characters ("You wouldn't deprive an old man of his walking stick?"). Or maybe, for the big guys laden with multiple [more than 2 obvious weapons] blades, 20gp per weapon! Pay for 3 and the daggers are free! Gate house/guard/city official NPC interactions ensue.

"Exchange Rates": What is the weight of coins? 50 to 1 lb? [let's say it's 50 since I dont' know what it is and don't feel like looking it up]. How many of these 4 PCs want to be walking around with an extra 60 lbs? I'm not suggesting "use encumbrance" on the whole. I certainly don't. Fast and loose, as makes common sense. I don't care/want to be bogged down in accounting weight of every individual piece of normal stuff. But an extra large chunk, like above 50lbs, is a significant addition to an individual's load and should be accounted for. This brings us to some business with the Moneylender/Jewel Merchant/etc... [NPC] to change the bulk of the weight/coins into usable sized gemstones (which can then be ignored for encumbrance purposes). Again, NPC interactions ensue. At best, the PCs will get away with a 5% loss coins to gems...the moneylender is in the business of making money, too, after all.

Right. So you've paid your "taxes", you're inside the city, you've arranged your accommodation and bought/stocked up on your basic gear, with easily carried loads of the remaining loot. Let's say all of that gets us down to 2200 per PC. Still a goodly chunk of change.

Where to now? That's character dependent.

"Tithes": Clerics? Paladins? Monks? There's a minimum of 10% going to temples, orders, monasteries, and/or various generic charities/donations (feeding the poor, orphanages, hospitals, etc...).

"Dues": Any Mages or Sorcerers in this city's Wizarding Guild? (in Glantri I would expect so). Even if not membership "dues", per se, Mage, Sorcerer, [maybe even] Warlock or Bard PCs might be interested in consulting with them, identifying items, using libraries and otherwise doing research with/in the Mage Guild's facilities. That's going to cost you...whether a pecentage of your total wealth or, more likely, a flat fee for X gp per day access to the guild's resources. Again, NPC interations/RP opportunities.

"Bribes": Rogues [maybe Bards], likewise, if not actual guildmembers (assuming this city has a thieves' guild of some level of competence), you will pay 10% [let the PCs haggle down to -but not lower than- 5%] to satisfy the thieves' guild and keep their grubby little hands out of your party's coffers. A group of wealthy adventurers just came into town with a haul? Pay up or take your chances. Yeah, if I were playing a Rogue character I would get in touch with the local "Hands" and make sure we were copacetic before my stuff started disappearing/I -or any of my companions- was getting mugged/attacked in my bed. Maybe we want to pay off a few guardsmen to turn a blind eye to any shenanigans we want to engage in. Maybe we want to throw a few silver to some urchins [recalling our own background/upbringing] to keep their eyes and ears open for interesting info for us. Build some "good will" with local business owners/commoners. NPC interations/RP -and potential plot hook- opportunities ABOUND!

"Other People's Investments": A group of wealthy mercenaries have come into town and are throwing money around you say? The wizard or sage doing research on some important project, seeking some item/place, nobles with business interests or opportunities, lords looking to bolster their armed forces [perhaps you'd like to become a knight of the realm? A townhouse in the wealthy part of town? Some title-post with no responsibility?]...People, whether desperate, conniving or just plain greedy come a-calling for investors to contribute and furhter their schemes. NPCS and plot hooks' potential galore!

Finally, we get to "Your OWN Investments": Does the character want a headquarters/house, an inn or other business of their own? I think building a castle/keep at this point is out of the question. Hire your own force of mercenary guards/small army? Mounts? Warhorses for EVERYONE! Oh wait, they have to be equipped, housed and fed too don't they? Maybe commission some works of art (an epic poem/song, a great painting, sculpture) to your greatness. Commission some other great work/project...build up fortifications, aqueducts, bridges, cathedrals, or other "experimental" engineering projects. Become a general/noted philanthropist...at least for the immediate region...whatever's left in your belt pouch isn't going to get you any reputation of note too far from the particular city where this work is.

What's left? Not more than a couple of hundred for some emergency, I would wager. Oh look, it's time to pay for your next month's rent at the inn/boarding house. No problem, Mrs. Innkeeper...here ya go.

What's left now? Did someone say there was a magic item shop/crafter in this city somewhere?

"Hey, Brutis, can I borrow...<count, count>...150gp? I'll pay you back, I swear!"

 

[steeldragons]

OH! And I nearly forgot...

"Training": I know I am probably in the minority here...but I LOVE PCs having to train. Have always used it. Even if you don't do it for every level, and I don't -those times when a party's in the midst of a major adventure, for example, I'm not going to say "Right, everyone back to town to get your new level!" But, when they are in a settlement/somewhere they could conceivably find a mentor to aid in their advancement to the next level, they are a HUGE boon/opportunity for RP, interactions, contact-building, and plot hook potential.

The PCs, obviously, need to pay -preferably in coin, in this case, or in possible/future deed. It is a good way to eat up some gold and in-game time, as well...forcing a group to stay put for a period of time, and so running into little side adventures in/around town, instead of just rushing back out into the field.

If you do not usually use/play training, normally, offer some incentives! Get creative with their contacts, their stories, their backgrounds and bonds/flaws/ideals. Offer some measurable-but-minor benefit that makes it worth their while to spend the money and time.

For arcane spellcasters (including Eldritch Knights and Tricksters), it is especially easy. Train with a mentor and gain an extra low level spell, e.g. the character is becoming 5th level. I wouldn't give an extra 3rd level spell. But you get your 3rd level spell (since you're leveling up, as normal), and with the aid of your training, maybe you can select an extra 1st level spell or a cantrip or two, to add to your spellbook. Pick up an extra spell that can be cast as a ritual? Clerics or Paladins training at a temple of their deity (or one of similar alignment) maybe you do so well, you get a freebie potion, low-level scroll or even minor [very situational] magic item.

For non-magical characters, it's a bit tougher. The benefits of the training are most commonly/generally potential "good will" and contacts for future use. Possible NPCs that can provide some kind of story help when the party needs it. Or, throw them an added armor or weapon prof they didn't already possess (easier when PCs gained individual prof's. Group prof's might be OPed). Throw in a +1 to hit, Stealth or other skill/particular ability checks or whatever...just cuz they got trained. Some minor stunt from a feat without having to take the feat (not the FULL benefits of a feat, but something). This would work, it seems to me, especially well if you are not using the Feat options. Giving the character some mechanical-measurable benefit that they wouldn't normally be able to achieve. Something like that.

For a more direct incentive, something I've thought of for 5e that can apply to any class/sub-class, -NOTE: This is not playtested at all, so take with a grain of salt- is to permit the character to lessen their next class feature by 1 level. So, if you pay for training with a qualified mentor, even if that next class feature is some levels away, instead of gaining your, say, 6th level feature at 6th level, you get it at 5th...even if you're only training to get to 3rd or 4th level. I don't really see how this might imbalance or OP a character too much. They can only advance the feature 1 level per training. I think it could work and make the PCs feel a bit more "special" and differentiated among themselves (for parties with multiple of the same class).

So, there's that to use up some gold, as well.