I had a wierd dream last night...

Rune

Once A Fool
It was pretty strange. I was talking to Elijah Wood about the Lord of the Rings and I started to rant about Elrond's usage of the phrase, "from whence," in the movie and how whence means "from where" and "from whence" is therefore redundant and incorrect. It really irked me that the screenwriters made the decision to use that phrase when Tolkien never would have, being a linguist, and all. As a matter of fact, I explained to Wood, Tolkien uses whence fairly frequently in The Lord of the Rings, but he never once uses the incorrect phrase, "from whence." This wouldn't bother me so much if Tolkien wasn't who he was, but language was his life-long profession!

At this point, Wood had not, for some reason, wandered off in disgust yet, so I started to discuss language-theory with him.

I brought up the fact that Tolkien was once confronted by a fan with the fact that "dwarven" isn't really a word (nor elven, for that matter). The fan offered proof that the word should be "dwarfin" in the form of the Oxford English Dictionary-- the edition that Tolkien had edited.

Tolkien, I believe, told the fellow, pretty much, that he says it's a word, so it is.

Elijah's eyes hadn't glazed over yet, so I started to ponder what justification Tolkien would have for creating this word and why the fan was not correct.

It came to me (as I rambled on to Elijah Wood) that, like Shakespeare, before him (and unlike George W, after), Tolkien was justified in creating his own word because he understood the language. "Dwarfin" means "like a dwarf," but this is not the word that Tolkien needed. Rather, he needed a word that meant "of the dwarves" and created one using the rules of the language within which he was working. (Of course, this isn't strictly true, as "dwarfin" does actually also mean "of the dwarves," but, hey, it was a dream-- and, really, it shouldn't have that second meaning bundled in.)

Then I woke up.

Oh, yeah. In the dream, Elijah Wood played D&D3e and lurked on these boards.

And I was a popular poster.

And I could fly.

Pretty strange, I know. Too many English and Philosphy courses working against me, I suspect.
 

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The disturbing thing about this dream is that all of my arguments and philosphies were based on actual, real-life facts.

...And that this is just the type of thing I'd probably do, if I met the star of a movie I really liked.
 

Didn't Shakespear use Elfin?

I'm pretty sure it's used more than once in "A Midsummer Night's Dream," I'll have to go check.
 

Jeph said:
Didn't Shakespear use Elfin?

I'm pretty sure it's used more than once in "A Midsummer Night's Dream," I'll have to go check.

Sorry, I was referring to Shakespear's propensity to make up words, in general-- not that particular word.
 

I told my girlfriend about the dream, when I woke up, and she was astounded that Elijah Wood had not killed me in the dream at some point.

As she would have done.
 
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The disturbing part is that you were a lurker. ;)

Now, this conversation and dream obviously say one thing. Dump your girlfriend, and marry Elijah Woods.
 

Were you walking around nekkid in the dream? I hate having that dream -- me being nekkid, not you. I've never dreamed about you, nekkid or otherwise.:D
 

fyi (from dictionary.com)...

[Middle English whennes : whenne, whence (from Old English hwanon. See kwo- in Indo-European Roots) + -es, genitive sing. suff.; see -s3.]

Usage Note: The construction from whence has been criticized as redundant since the 18th century. It is true that whence incorporates the sense of from: a remote village, whence little news reached the wider world. But from whence has been used steadily by reputable writers since the 14th century, most notably in the King James Bible: “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help” (Psalms). Such a respectable precedent makes it difficult to label the construction as incorrect. Still, it may be observed that whence (like thence) is most often used nowadays to impart an archaic or highly formal tone to a passage, and that this effect is probably better realized if the archaic syntax of the wordwithout fromis preserved as well.

mel.
 

Thanks for providing that quotation, wighair (not "quote," incidentally, but that's another rant :))!

wighair said:
But from whence has been used steadily by reputable writers since the 14th century, most notably in the King James Bible: “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help” (Psalms). Such a respectable precedent makes it difficult to label the construction as incorrect.

Nonsense. It was wrong then (and there) and it is still wrong.
 

Rune,

If I ever misuse a word on our project please be gentle and let me know about it... and whatever you do don't lay the linguistic smackdown on me in your dreams... do it on the project page ;-)

Your Partner in Crime,
Jaldaen

PS: I just finished the rough draft of those skills I've been working on and should be posting them shortly... after this post perhaps...
 

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