I Hate Appraise

[amwest]

Now, I have to say that I really do hate the appraise skill system.
The main problem with it is that it requires an amazing number of
dice rolls. For a D&D party, it is stupid to have just one
character appraise each item. The right thing to do is to have EACH
character appraise each item. Then, at least, if two of them come
up with the same price you are pretty sure it is correct.

Then, you want to take all the items to the merchant you are selling
to, and ask him what he will give you for each item. If you are
unscrupulous, you then accept all of his offers where he clearly
made an error and over-estimates the price of each item. If there
are multiple merchants, you could repeat this process to get
overbids over and over again.

When running short on merchants, the PCs should then sell all
remaining items at what appear to be fair prices. The trouble is
that for as little as 25 items, this could easily take over 200
rolls to resolve. If D&D were a reality simulation, I guess that
would be fine. But I imagine most people play for adventure, not
sales.

Anyway, I don't really have a solution. I just give people treasure
values in my games, but that is just because I am lazy and don't
want to have to look an item up again later and usually play with
people who are good about not metagaming. Maybe Appraise could be
used on "lots" of items collectively instead of each individual
item, which would save rolls. But it still gauls me.

Even weirder, with all those rules for estimating the value of
items, there are no rules for haggling/negotiating. What gives with
that? A little thought into the game could turn the mess of an
economy in it into something more plausible and workable, and also
create another useable skill in the game. (Rather than a number of
the rubbish skills which no one buys and are being phased out
gradually.)

What do other people think about this problem?

 

[Crothian]

No, never really been problem for us

haggling i use diplomacy

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Rules for haggling can be found in Complete Adventurer, under the Diplomacy skill entry.

If you want to reduce die rolls, just allow the character with the best Appraise check to be assisted by others via the Aid Another action.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I agree. I hate the appraise system as well. I don't have a solution for it yet though that I like that much better.
I typically have the group assign an "appraiser", the lone party member with the highest skill is usually chosen and then I roll once for the item and his estimated value.
Then when he tries to sell it to a merchant I make an opposed appraise check. Win by +5 and you get 10% more. By +10 and you get 20% more and so forth.
It makes the skill worthwhile but even then, it can be cumbersome. Nowhere near as cumbersome as the core rules though!

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

We've pretty much done away with appraising items all together. In the grand scheme of things, it's just a bookkeeping exercise. Better to just tell the guy with Appraise what the item is roughly worth on the open market. Maybe make rolls if it's something rare/exotic. If no one has Appriase, then they have to take the merchant's word for it (or make Sense Motive checks).

 

[Crothian]

One of the problems seems to be the characters all want to appraise and then they sort of meta game how they determine what it is worth. Our group only has one person roll and then we jot down what he things it is worth. It is really simple and painless. Haggling is a mix of role playing and die rolls depending on what is going on. We save this sort of thing for in between sessions usually to role play on our gaming boards so it doesn't take up real gaming time.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

But it still gauls me.

I try my best not to nitpick other grammar and spelling - that whole "people in glass houses" thing has always stuck with me - but I couldn't pass up this particular gaff.

What you've written might be misconstrued as a peculiar racial epithet. The gauls are/were an ethnic group.

On the other hand, people might say that I have a lot of gall in posting this.

On topic: Yeah, I'm not crazy about Appraise, either, and I use a solution similar to yours, though, luckily, many PCs in my game end up keeping a fair amount of the art they collect, so it's more an issue of gems.

I will sometimes base the amount of "appraisable" wealth I give the party on the highest appraise score in the party. It doesn't actually change the treasure they get or its value, only what they can get for it. Parties in which somebody knows what to look for, what to sell it for, and when to hold on to loot are less likely to get shafted in the cashing-in process.

 

[Ultrazen]

No one in my group has ever taken appraise.
So I set them up on friendly terms with a reliable merchant.
Gems, jewelry, and artwork gets sent to him and he converts them to gold, supplies, or whatever for a small fee between adventures.

I really like the idea of some kind of appraise skill though. As it is now, I have to be rather heavy-handed when inserting any sort of item serving as a clue or plot device. It's easy for them to look at something just once and if it's jewelry or a gem, they sell it; if magic, keep it; otherwise leave it. :\

But then I like the bookkeeping aspects of the game. Of course I'm also the kind that likes to take notes during a game and insists that everyone buy rations and fill their waterskins before leaving town....

Resource management is fun, just not for everyone.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

As a dm I wouldn't recommend to my friends to ever have their characters take ranks in the skill because I don't use it.

The other dm (my 'understudy') therefore doesn't know it exists.

 

[apesamongus]

One of the problems seems to be the characters all want to appraise and then they sort of meta game how they determine what it is worth.

Seeking a second opinion and looking for consensus is metagaming? That seems to me exactly what intelligent people looking to find the price of something would do.