I Hate Appraise

[Saeviomagy]

as for haggling -- I say roll Bluff

Hostile result -- won't sell to you or wants 100% more

Unfriendly -- add 25% to PHB cost

Indifferent -- PHB Cost

Friendly -- subtract 10% PHB cost

Helpfull -- subtract 25% PHB cost

Unlike diplomacy, there is no such table for bluff. Further, using such a table would totally invalidate the sense motive skill...

Frankly, I think that the haggling rules should use the appraise skill. For no other reason than it
1) Makes things easier - you don't need to appraise, then haggle
2) Makes more sense - otherwise you end up getting a price that you KNOW is too low, but you just take it anyway, because the roll says so.
3) Gives the appraise skill a genuine use, rather than the waste of time that it is currently.
4) Reduces dice rolls - no more "1 dice roll for every party member, then one for each merchant, plus the rolls for bargaining etc etc".

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

In any spelling correction, the probability of the correction itself containing a misspelled word approaches 1.

The word is "gaffe." The word is Gaulish in origin.

CM is partially right. I couldn't pass it up, though I really should have. I'm delighted that you caught me on this. I think most people take offense at having their grammar or language corrected, so I try to refrain. I, however, do not take offense. I like when people catch my gaffes.

As for my original post, I saw when I typed it that I wasn't sure about the word, and I went ahead on my best hunch anyway, but as soon as I saw your correction, I knew you were right. The worst thing about this is that I don't tell people here that they should always be right, only that it's polite to double check before you post. Shame on me.

Slightly closer to being on-topic:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=2342327#post2342327
Help me generate a list of art objects.

 

[The Souljourner]

I hate the entire idea of a given item having an 'inherent' gp value, actually- I like supply & demand having effects. There's one area imc that values copper much more highly than gold, in fact....

Well, supply and demand do have an effect, but in general, things tend to even out over time. Would you buy an $8 Big Mac meal? Probably not. You know that in general they're $4.69-$5.89. You might get annoyed if they're $6.29 somewhere expensive, but they're never $8 (at least in my experience).

It's the same thing with magic weapons. Adventurers deal with this stuff all the time. They've perused hundreds of shops looking for deals on 100' lengths of rope, backpacks, and lanterns, and sold dozens of rubies, gold necklaces, masterwork scimitars, etc. They're going to know the approximate value of all normal treasure.

Do you know how much the average splatbook costs? How about a core book? One of the bigger books like draconomicon or FRCS? You could probably make pretty close guesses. Sure, in medieval times there was a lot less communication so prices are likely to vary more, since the people in the next town over (40 miles away) might not know they sell backpacks here for 5 silver less.... but in general, things cost what they cost.

As for a place that values copper more than gold... that's a little over the top. Unless they're totally isolated from the rest of the world, they would soon have a glut of copper as everyone and their mother went there to buy cheapass stuff.

With any decent sort of trade between areas, prices will stabilize.

-The Souljourner

 

[Storm Raven]

Except that isn't what was said here. Everyone is just rolling because they can and the group hopes someone rolls well enough to get a close answer.

Appraise is something the DM rolls. No PC should know if their roll was "good" or "bad".

 

[ThirdWizard]

Appraise is something the DM rolls. No PC should know if their roll was "good" or "bad".

Well, really, you can tell just by checking the results. If three people roll, and two get the same result, it doesn't matter what their skills are, the ones who got the same result are probably right. It's been a while since I took Statistics, but I think the point where you would trust the one who got the different roll would be the point where the % chance to roll the same result on 2d6 twice is the same as the difference in the ranks times 5%.

In other words, its better to trust the two guys with one rank in Appraise over the guy with 10 ranks in appraise if they think its worth the same amount. Which doesn't make a whole lot of roleplaying sense to me.

Of course, Hyp would come along and argue that it makes perfect sense in a world governed by D&D rules.

 

[Quicken]

Here's the trick: If rolling multiple appraise checks for a single item. Never roll more than 2 values for failed checks.

"You both examine the dagger and both come to the same conclusion. The gems on the dagger are glass and it couldn't be worth more than 10gp"

Finally for really expensive items play off the fact the players won't know WHY it's worth so much (or to whom). An art object is typically judged on it's quality. Only a player with a high appraise may know it's a long lost work from a famous artist. Only a player with a high appraise will know it's a fake designed to look like the work of a famous artist.

 

[Crothian]

Appraise is something the DM rolls. No PC should know if their roll was "good" or "bad".

Perhaps, a good player though can and won't meta game it.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Heck, I let my players roll their Search for traps. Generally, they always check twice then believe their rolls even if its two ones.