I Hate Bards

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I'm a fairly forgiving GM. I'm not afraid of saying "yes". Evidenced by the fact that the bard I'm going to be talking about double 20'd a Godling and outright slayed him derailing the story for that night. Things happen and good GMs can make stuff up on the fly when something like that happens. A couple adventures ago, skirting the Syrin Mountains on the desert continent of Chyrna, the party was walking through an immense sandstorm. The party was able to make out the forms of a few giant desert beetles a little ways in the distance. This was supposed to be a battle encounter but the bard (gamebreaking bard) was able to mimic the sound of the beetles natural predator (a dragon - which are rare in my world but not so much along this mountain range) and scare them off. He patted himself on the back and scared the beetles off. The party was a little upset that he screwed them all out of xp.

He definitely thinks outside of the box and I reward that.

BUT!

Last night was ridiculous. They were fighting a purple worm that I had run through the Monster Builder to adjust level, stats and damage. It was set up to be a great fight. You'll know this if you are familiar with the purple worm. They are a lot of fun.

The fight took 2 hours. The best part of the purple worm is their grab ability. They swoop in bite the target then clutch them in its powerful jaws. The target stays there until it can escape. The purple worm is a "huge" monster. While controlling the worm, the GM just hopes that he can get a target bleeding so he can use the "swallow" ability. Swallow does just what the ability name says. You swallow a bloodied target. The target is out of line of sight and effect.

Now for the ridiculousness. I had swallowed a member of the party. The party member was down to 2 hp after taking the 20 total dmg. It comes to be the bards turn. I cannot remember the name of the power exactly but it was his daily. Something or other of the Fey Wild. The daily has an effect on it if it hits where you shift the target PC one square. You can see by now what happened. He hits with his daily and shifts the target that is inside the belly of the beast one square. I called BS. The wording wasn't precise. We all looked it up. No arguents ensued but a few of the PCs were on my side when I said that it's utterly ridiculous. I allowed it but begrudgingly.

It seems to me that the bard class is full of crap like this. They have some fairly game breaking utility. I'm not there to KILL the party. But, sometimes the crap goes too far. Later in the fight I target the bard. I hit and do the dmg. The wording on the skill says "takes d10+4 damage PLUS target is grabbed. He said he was going invisible (more crap - no rolls...he just gets to go invis). He argues that on the DAMAGE he goes invisible. I say "Fine. You're invisible. You're invisible in the beasts jaws." He wasn't too happy.

How would you guys of ruled on this?
 

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Without looking anything up:

1. The swallowed pc was out of line of effect, so the bard shouldn't have been able to target him in order to slide him.

2. Sure, the bard goes invisible, but there is no reason whatsoever that should stop him from being grabbed.
 

Hate the player, not the bard

IMO, the issue is the player not the bard. The mimic trick could have been used by anyone with a high enough bluff. In this case it was a player who likes to F with the DM and seems to be very uncharismatic towards the actual players at the table.

Another issue with the "shift 1" attempt is that you can't move through a solid object unless it has phasing (or insubstantial - can't recall if it's one or both). I suppose he could have shifted him down the worms GI track, but that assumes he had line of sight, which he didn't.

Rule -1 in my book: Don't play with jerks.
 

The swallowed pc was out of line of sight and effect and should not have been targetable. Plus I believe that a swallowed target should also be restrained and dazed and can not move on his own or be the recipient of forced movement.

Invisible just grants full concealment, combat advantage on other targets, and no OAs on you. He was already hit and the extra effect of the hit was grabbed, so he was grabbed. I'm not sure why something that had it's jaws locked on you, doing damage, would let you go because he couldn't see you as long as he was still tasting your delicious blood.
 
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First the Bard didn't have LoE to the PC, so it shouldn't have worked. In addition being in the stomach should be equivalent to restrained, which forced movement effects don't help.

To the second, yeah the bard is invisible, but he's still grabbed. Unless the invis is an immediate interrupt though, it'll happen after the attack is resolved.
 

Without looking anything up:

1. The swallowed pc was out of line of effect, so the bard shouldn't have been able to target him in order to slide him.

2. Sure, the bard goes invisible, but there is no reason whatsoever that should stop him from being grabbed.
The Jester is wise.

Also, in real life I grab invisible things all the time. It shouldn't be any different in a world of make-believe.
 

Don't hate the Bard, hate the playa.

He's bending the rules, and that's putting it politely. He can't effect what he can't see, or have line of effect to. Stick to the ACTUAL rules, not what he tries to convince you of, and you won't have any trouble.
 


Yeah, I think this is just a bit of "familiarity with the letter of the rules" kind of issue. Virtually ALL powers require Line of Effect in order to work. Another place where this falls down is in shifting, which isn't limitless in its capability. You can only shift someone into a square they could enter on their own. I'm thinking someone in the belly of a worm can't go ANYWHERE, there's purple worm in all directions...

As for the invisibility thing I don't know the particular power or whatever he used but unless it is an interrupt it won't negate an attack, and even if it IS an interrupt invisible means total concealment equals -5 to-hit for ranged and melee attacks, which may or may not be enough to foil any given attack.

It is worth saying though that Paragon characters (and moreso epic) have a lot of little "get out of jail free" kinds of powers they can pick up. The Purple Worm is also widely considered the worst designed monster in all of 4e. I'm not sure what mods you made to it, but the one in the book is a miserable example of a solo monster. Any party with even modest tactics should be able to just laugh one off.
 

Don't take it the wrong way, but I think you have problems on both sides of the table.

Seems like the bard player likes to be creative (a good thing) and take advantage of the benefits of a table top rpg with a live DM. But also seems like the bard player tries to bend the rules to his advantage whenever he can.

Why not talk to the player and compromise? For instance, you say you reward creativity but why didn't you give the party full XP for the beetle encounter? Why are you upset when the player gets lucky and rolls two 20s? Let this player shine when he does good / creative things within the rules, but also explain that you would appreciate it if he tones down his attempts at "creativity" that are really trying to take advantage of loopholes, etc.
 

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