I hate Chaotic Neutral

Shallown said:
As a player it is my job to include myself to some extent. ...
I guess what I am saying is the players have to meet you half way regardless of their alignement or choose an AL that works for the group.

Later

I think this is a very good point. I think we too often overlook the "unwritten rules" of D&D. One of the most important of these is that players should defer (whenever possible) to the GM's storyline. The GM puts a lot of thought and work into the campaign. So a player shouldn't reject the GM's plotline/story goals except in extreme cases. I think that this unwritten rule stems from the nature of a cooperative game. The players are assembling to have some fun. The GM is trying to craft stories and encounters that will entertain the players. Hence, the players have some responsibility to accept the GM's lead in order to fulfill everyone's purpose in showing up. (A similar unwritten rule of the game is that players and their characters should cooperate and refrain from conspiring against each other. I think this unwritten rule also follows of the kind of game that is being played.)

Again, I do believe that sometimes as a player you just can't see your character participating in what the GM has planned. So in extreme cases, a player has a right (and perhaps a duty) to balk at what the GM has planned for the evening. However, this should be a rarity. For the most part, the GM's plot hooks should be gobbled up unless a player has very serious reservations.

If this line of thinking is correct, then we can definitely conclude that the problem is not the alignment but the player. As long as a player is willing to obey the "unwritten rules" of the game, any alignment should be playable. (It is just that certain alignments might impose more of a burden on the player to justify why the character would cooperate with other players and go along with the GM's plot hooks.)
 

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Thanee said:
“Adventuring? Not with me, I can't leave here. These people need me.”

“No, we can't do that, he said this is his land and we have to abide by his rules. There is no reason not to believe him, unless we have a proof.”

Not very helpful. :)

I don't buy this line of reasoning at all. You are aware that, in the game known as D&D, that all other characters besides the PCs are typically run by the DM? ;) A DM of a lawful character merely need invoke the heirarchy that the character respects, and the character is on the adventure. Your scenario would only hold any water if the DM willfully sabotages himself.

Crothian said:
Extremely helpful. That is two great adventure seeds.

True dat. :)
 

Mystery Man said:
IMBO that's just backdoor railroading.

"Stop the doomsday cult or the world ends" is also railroading. As is "your patron group/god/king wants you to do x". Or "your code indicates you should do X." Or "get the X before bad thing Y happens."

The point was that other options besides pay the character to get him to do X are available. Stolen items, being used as a stooge in a setup, having enemies because of a prophecy or past encounter, etc. are other methods to hook a character into an adventure without increasing his wealth.

Psion asked the Players to provide some IC motivations, I think that is the better route, requiring some character motivation that can be used. Otherwise I could see the player just switching to Neutral and playing the character the same.
 

Psion said:
I cannot rely on anything other than money, or so it seems, when it comes to the run of the mill CN PC IME.

What if you gave the CN PC some hints at something that he wants - like a wand/sword/cloak of ultimate power. Or whatever. Then he's got a reason to go looking after that.

Or how about family and friends? Chaotic Neutrals still have ties to other people.

How about going with the "character growth" model? The CN PC can change to a Good alignment over time.

How about the child of prophecy?

How about the CN character is expected to do something, but doesn't want to (because of his Chaotic and Neutral nature), so he flees his responsibility, and has to deal with the consequences of that?

Just some ideas.
 

Psion said:
I don't buy this line of reasoning at all. You are aware that, in the game known as D&D, that all other characters besides the PCs are typically run by the DM? ;) A DM of a lawful character merely need invoke the heirarchy that the character respects, and the character is on the adventure. Your scenario would only hold any water if the DM willfully sabotages himself.

So, all you are looking for is easy railroading? :p j/k

Sure, it's easy to provide a plot for a lawful character. Authority gives orders, PC follows.

As someone above said, chaotic is for more mature players, I guess that's true. But not even players... the characters themselves need to be mature beings. If you have a chaotic society (i.e. elves), how could that function, without the people being mature beings? Chaotic certainly does not equate to anti-social. It's about respecting each other, giving everyone room for development. Elves are the perfect example for that.

Anyways, there are probably two streaks of chaotic... mature and immature.

Your problem seems to come from the mixing of chaotic with immature. :)

Bye
Thanee
 

I only allow the following alignments for my players:

LG, NG, CG -- the various good guy alignments
LN -- stern clerics of St. Cuthbert, ulta-disciplined monks, et al.
N -- druids, wizards who can't be bothered with questions of morality, et al.

I stongly encourage the players to choose the Good alignments, and I only allow LN and N to experienced players whom I know can handle it.

I simply don't have the time nor energy to waste on evil-aligned players, or chaoctic-neutral weirdos.
 

kolikeos said:
i find LE the hardest alignment to role-play. how does a LE charcter act? i can role-play a NE or a LN, but just can't get it right with LE.
If you don't want to play a truely devilish character, LE in a party is more of the "we against the others" type. The lawful part will make sure that the character, once committed to the rest of the party, will stick to his role within the group. He likes to have a defined hierarchy; of course he wants to be on top of the hacking order, because it's all about power for him, but he can fill in a lower rank if there's no other way. Outside the group, he's ruthless and will kill, steal and betray as long as he get's away with it. The only people who are relatively safe from this will be those he sees as members of "his own" group, i.e., who have some kind of contract with him, be it written, oral or implicit.

This must not be confused with "law-abiding" in the sense of following the law of the land. This might be true for a member of the government or the law-enforcing agency. Then the law of the group is the same as the law of the land. In this sense, you could also have LE members of a terrorist organisation. They follow the internal laws of their group, but everybody outside is free game.
 

Thanee said:
So, all you are looking for is easy railroading? :p j/k

So, asking a character to have a motivation that you can tie into adventures is "railroading" now is it?

As someone above said, chaotic is for more mature players, I guess that's true. But not even players... the characters themselves need to be mature beings. If you have a chaotic society (i.e. elves), how could that function, without the people being mature beings? Chaotic certainly does not equate to anti-social. It's about respecting each other, giving everyone room for development. Elves are the perfect example for that.

Anyways, there are probably two streaks of chaotic... mature and immature.

Your problem seems to come from the mixing of chaotic with immature. :)

I have no such "problem". As I stated many posts ago, I see the problem as being with the players who fail to make motivatable characters, the symptom is the marked preference for CN characters.
 

LE People follow the rules but care little to nothing about others as long as they get their share and a little more.

Evil does not care for others. Evil is selfish.

Tyrants and oppressors are lawful evil. Slavers, too. Criminal organizations, like the mafia, are composed mostly of LE people. Devils, who follow the letter of the law, twisting and turning it around, until they find a way to hurt you without breaking it.

Bye
Thanee
 

Psion said:
So, asking a character to have a motivation that you can tie into adventures is "railroading" now is it?

just/kidding :)

I have no such "problem". As I stated many posts ago, I see the problem as being with the players who fail to make motivatable characters, the symptom is the marked preference for CN characters.

But isn't that exactly that? Maybe 'immature' is too strong a term, but what they are looking for is the freedom without the responsibility, that comes with it.

Bye
Thanee
 

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