I hate PCs with wings... do you?

[Nonlethal Force]

Okay. I love Favored Souls from level 1 to "before they get wings." But I really dislike the concept of them randomly growing a set of wings. I realize, it is a divine gift bestowed by their deity and all so it doesn't have to make sense, I just hate the concept. And judging but the lack of love for the Favored Soul in a few other threads for the same reason, I know that I'm not alone. The question is, what is a suitable replacement?

Like I said, I love the Favored Soul class - minus the wings.

Oh, and the same thing with the Dragon Shaman. I hate the fact that wings are a part of that class - although I love the Dragon Shaman concept as well. What could be a suitable replacement for that class.

I also realize that the Geomancer PrC from CD also has wings as an option, but there I feel that there are enough options that I can rule the wings away when a player shows interest in the class. Although, I've never had a player take that PrC, so I don't feel the inner turmoil over that PrC as I do the other classes that I think are cool.

Any ideas? Any classes from Core+Complete+PHBII that I missed that gets wings?

 

[Rystil Arden]

I don't have any problems with PCs who have wings for a reason that fits in well (such as being a Dragon), but classes that randomly shell it out for everyone in the class when it doesn't really fit for all of them are annoying.

What you could do is find a cool special power that the Favoured Soul gains based on choosing one domain granted by her deity--so maybe she would get Wings only if she picked Air.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

No problem with winged PC here, but I can understand.

However, I did like the suggestion that the class bennies for Favored Soul be more closely linked to the divine being the PC follows. The wings are probably the result of viewing all of the religious art the world has to offer- according to artists, at least 80% of the servants of deities have wings. But why would an Earth god grant his FS wings? More likely, that being would grant the Xorn-like ability to move through earth. Water gods would grant gills and high swim speeds.

As for the DS, perhaps instead of granting full flight, perhaps you could tone down the power of the wings a little...say, adding +20' of movement while running (by flapping the wings) and a +20 to jump? Maybe gliding instead of flying, so they could still do a controlled fall or attack from above, but couldn't go after a creature that can actually fly without starting above it.

 

[Land Outcast]

I think it isn't the power, but plainly the fact that "it has wings" is what bothers NF.

My idea would be: Add uses of (or add power to) the granted power of a domain pertinent to the deity

 

[SpiralBound]

I personally only like winged races if the wings are part of the core concept of the race. A CLASS that gets wings (or any other organ or limb "just because") is a dumb idea with no real justification IMO. Then again, some of my views on races and clases are a bit hardcore anyway. I don't even really like half-races! :?

"Come see the amazing Humans! Nature's genetic superglue! Thrill your senses with the half human, half elf, the human-orc blend, the half human & half bugbear, the treant-human melding, the half human, half Scottish terrier and more! Bring your friends, bring your family! Come often and see them all!!"

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Thanks for the thoughts, one and all!

What you could do is find a cool special power that the Favoured Soul gains based on choosing one domain granted by her deity--so maybe she would get Wings only if she picked Air.

Definately a good thought, although it does make the FS a bit like the DS in that it becomes a different class based upon deity/dragon. Of course, only at high levels so that's a non-issue, really. Besides, I suppose Rangers and Rogues all get "big" choices in their class abilities .. so, really just disregard this paragraph. Yet, because I hate deleting thoughts .. I'll leave it here for you all to pick abart anyway!

With regard to the FS, what would you think of a special ability along the lines of this: You may choose any 7th-level or lower spell in one of your chosen dieties granted domain as a spell-like ability usable two times per day. No components are required, althugh all appropriate XP costs must be paid normally as if it were a spell being cast.

This would add the possibility of adding another spell to the FS's limited list in addition to making the ability in line with the deity worshipped. Is 7th level too high a cap? Not high-enough? To general and will be abused?

The wings are probably the result of viewing all of the religious art the world has to offer- according to artists, at least 80% of the servants of deities have wings. But why would an Earth god grant his FS wings? More likely, that being would grant the Xorn-like ability to move through earth. Water gods would grant gills and high swim speeds.

This also raises good questions, and I'd not thought of looking at art as the reason for it. May be onto something there as far as justification for writing in the ability in the CD. However, I also agree with the gills/xorn thought, too. You raise some interesting points, thank you.

I think it isn't the power, but plainly the fact that "it has wings" is what bothers NF.

Yes, this is a correct analysis. I have no problem with the "power" of wings. The spell Fly has typically been known by the party for a long time at this level, so the type of movement doesn't particularily bother me. It is a distaste of flavor. I don't like the thought of humans/elves (unless they are true fey)/xephs/maenads/orcs/etc with wings out their backside! This is especially true for dwarves.

Player 1: "Moradin's Crap, Thurgard! You can't fit through this tunnel any more without folding up those wings."
Player 2: "No duh, Borin. I don't know why Moradin cursed me with these blasted things. A dwarf with wings is about as useful as a giant with a ladder."
Player 1: "I could always try and cast 'Remove Curse' on you so you could be back to normal."
Player 2: "Nah, maybe I'll go out and seek a Temple of Nerull and see if there are any vampires hanging out. I'm sure a good permanent level-drain might have an effect."
Player 1: "Aren't you afraid of running the risk of becoming a vampire, Thurgard?"
Player 2: "Acht, no, Boris. I'm Moradin's Favored Soul, Not Nerull's!"
Player 1: "Yeah, in a way it makes me wish you were one of those deeper dwarves with an LA. Then maybe you could try and work your way into buying off that LA, losing the experience necessary, and losing those wings through that means."
Player 2: "Well, either way, these wings are pointless in this gem mine..."

Okay .. maybe that wasn't very funny, but I think it gets my point across why I feel wings are stupid on dwarves.

My idea would be: Add uses of (or add power to) the granted power of a domain pertinent to the deity

So what do you think of my suggestion about the spell-like ability by using domain spells?

I don't even really like half-races! :?

I don't have a problem with half-races as long as the DM is willing to open it up to a true interbreeding possibility. I'd like to see a half dwarf/gnome. Or a half elf/xeph. Or a half orc/hobgoblin. Why are humans the only race allowed to be blessed with being able to not be choosey in regard to what floats their boat? If anything, that's a cause for the other races to hate humans right there!

Of course, there are limits. A half half-giant/halfling just isn't really possible. I mean, it is .. but ... ewwwww. Would a half half-giant/halfling be a quarter giantling? Anyway, I should probably stop trying to be funny now before people throw tomatoes.

 

[Land Outcast]

With regard to the FS, what would you think of a special ability along the lines of this: You may choose any 7th-level or lower spell in one of your chosen dieties granted domain as a spell-like ability usable two times per day. No components are required, althugh all appropriate XP costs must be paid normally as if it were a spell being cast.

My opinion: A modified Domain Granted Power would be nicer, kinda more unique, you know?
Examples:[sblock=Domain Granted Powers (Improved)]
Air Domain
You cast air and electricity spells at +1 caster level
Smite Earth (Su): Use this ability a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Animal Domain
You can use speak with animals at will as a spell-like ability, animals are instantly one step friendlier towards you.
Skills: Gain a sacred bonus equal to half your class level on Knowledge (nature) checks.

Chaos Domain
You cast chaos spells at +1 caster level.
Smite Law (Su): Use this ability a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Death Domain
Death Touch (Su): You may use a death touch once per day per every eight levels you possess. Your death touch is a supernatural ability that produces a death effect. You must succeed on a melee touch attack against a living creature (using the rules for touch spells). When you touch, roll 1d6 per class level you possess. If the total at least equals the creature’s current hit points, it dies (no save).

Destruction Domain
Smite (Su): Use this ability a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Earth Domain
You gain a +2 bonus to Con.
Smite Air (Su): Use this ability a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Evil Domain
You cast evil spells at +1 caster level.
Smite Good (Su): Use this ability a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Fire Domain
You cast fire spells at +1 caster level.
Smite Water/Cold (Su): Use this ability a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Good Domain
You cast good spells at +1 caster level.
Smite Evil (Su): Use this ability a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Healing Domain
You cast healing spells at +4 caster level.

Knowledge Domain
You cast divination spells at +1 caster level.
Skills: Gain a sacred bonus equal to half your class level on all Knowledge checks.

Law Domain
You cast law spells at +1 caster level.
Smite Chaos (Su): Use this ability a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Luck Domain
You gain the power of good fortune, which is usable once per day. This extraordinary ability allows you to reroll one roll that you or other creature have just made after the game master declares whether the roll results in success or failure. You can choose which roll to take.

Magic Domain
Use scrolls, wands, and other devices with spell completion or spell trigger activation as a wizard of one-half your class level (at least 1st level). For the purpose of using a scroll or other magic device, if you are also a wizard, actual wizard levels and these effective wizard levels stack.

Plant Domain
Rebuke or command plant creatures as an evil cleric rebukes or commands undead. Use this ability a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. This granted power is a supernatural ability. ¿?
Skills: Gain a sacred bonus equal to half your class level on Knowledge (nature) checks.

Protection Domain
Protective Ward (Su): You can generate a protective ward as a supernatural ability. Grant one creature -per every five class levels you have- Evasion (as the Rogue special ability, but including Will and Fortitude saves) on their saving throws. Activating this power is a standard action. The protective ward is an abjuration effect with a duration of a number of hours equal to half your charisma bonus that is usable once per day.

Strength Domain
Feat of Strength (Su): For a total time per day of 1 round per every 2 class levels you possess, you can perform a feat of strength (this rounds cannot be consecutive). You gain an enhancement bonus to Strength equal to your class level. Activating the power is a free action, the power lasts 1 round.

Sun Domain
You gain low-light vision, or your low-light vision improves it's efficiency by a factor of one.
Smite Undead (Su): Use this ability a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Travel Domain
Special Quality (Su): For a total time per day of 1 round per class level you possess, you can act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement. This effect occurs automatically as soon as it applies, lasts until it runs out or is no longer needed, and can operate multiple times per day (up to the total daily limit of rounds).
This granted power is a supernatural ability.
Skills: Gain a sacred bonus equal to half your class level on Survival checks.

Trickery Domain
Skills: Gain a sacred bonus equal to your class level on Bluff, Disguise, and Hide checks.

War Domain
Greater Weapon Focus with the deity’s favored weapon and Greater Weapon Specialization with deity's favored weapon.

Water Domain
You cast water and cold spells at +1 caster level.
Smite Fire (Su): Use this ability a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
[/sblock]

 

[Rystil Arden]

My opinion: A modified Domain Granted Power would be nicer, kinda more unique, you know?
Examples:

Good idea there. For some reason, I think I agree