Elder-Basilisk
First Post
Candlecaster can (effectively) make high level potions.
However, high level potions aren't all they're cracked up to be. The cost accellerates very very quickly. A potion of Heal would cost 3,300gp. Now, even if you're 12th or 13th level by the time you get a few of these and you only have two, that's 6,600gp that could have been spent on something that would help to keep you from ending up in a situation where you need a heal spell and the cleric isn't there. 6,600gp is the difference between a +1 backup weapon and a +1 ghost touch backup weapon (for dealing with undead). It's more than the difference between not having fire resistance and having fire resistance on your armor. Heck, also the difference between having boots of striding and springing and having boots of speed.
The problem with potions isn't that you can't get good effects in potions. It's rather that they take a standard action to use (using a potion of bull's strength in a fight is usually a losing proposition), it isn't immediately obvious when you need to use most of them (when you see the guy in a pointy hat on the other side, you don't know whether you want Resist energy: fire (fireball, scorching ray), resist energy: lightning (shocking grasp, lightning bolt), or protection from evil (summon monster III)), there are cheaper ways to get the effect (scrolls are cheaper than potions if you have the appropriate kind of spellcaster in the party). So a potion needs to meet all of those criteria:
1. It needs to be worth the standard action to use it. (Always true if you can drink it immediately before combat).
2. It needs to be obvious when you need it.
3. It needs to be better than a scroll.
4. It needs to be relatively inexpensive
healing potions meet all the requirements.
1. It's often worth a standard action not to die if you think the foe's next attack is more likely to kill you than your next action would be to kill it.
2. It's pretty obvious when you're hurting and the cleric isn't coming.
3. If the cleric isn't there or isn't coming, the scroll does you no good. (Unless you're a cleric/druid/ranger/paladin/bard yourself)
4. For occasional use, they don't put too big a dent in the wallet. 50 gp is affordable at first level. 300 gp is affordable by 4th or 5th level. 750 gp is affordable by 8th and 9th level when you start to need it.
Oil of bless weapon also meets the requirements.
1. It's often worth a standard action to take DR 10/good away from your enemies--even more so if your enemies have DR 15/good and cold iron and you don't have a holy weapon.
2. It's often obvious when you're facing a demon and your attacks aren't scratching it.
3. Sure the cleric can cast align weapon and the paladin can cast bless weapon...on one person per round. If you've three melee damage dealers in the party, having the oil lets you all get in on the action on round 2--instead of one person getting an attack late in round 1, another person getting in late in round 2, and another person getting into the fight in round 3 (assuming the cleric has 3 align weapon spells prepared--it's more likely that he only has one and then two people are reduced to using actions to Aid Other the one that can actually harm their foe or using power attack and hoping for a 20).
4. By the time you need them, the 100gp for oil of bless weapon is dirt cheap. At the lower levels, just having silver and cold iron weapons will usually be enough. At levels 7-14, 100gp is a drop in the bucket.
However, high level potions aren't all they're cracked up to be. The cost accellerates very very quickly. A potion of Heal would cost 3,300gp. Now, even if you're 12th or 13th level by the time you get a few of these and you only have two, that's 6,600gp that could have been spent on something that would help to keep you from ending up in a situation where you need a heal spell and the cleric isn't there. 6,600gp is the difference between a +1 backup weapon and a +1 ghost touch backup weapon (for dealing with undead). It's more than the difference between not having fire resistance and having fire resistance on your armor. Heck, also the difference between having boots of striding and springing and having boots of speed.
The problem with potions isn't that you can't get good effects in potions. It's rather that they take a standard action to use (using a potion of bull's strength in a fight is usually a losing proposition), it isn't immediately obvious when you need to use most of them (when you see the guy in a pointy hat on the other side, you don't know whether you want Resist energy: fire (fireball, scorching ray), resist energy: lightning (shocking grasp, lightning bolt), or protection from evil (summon monster III)), there are cheaper ways to get the effect (scrolls are cheaper than potions if you have the appropriate kind of spellcaster in the party). So a potion needs to meet all of those criteria:
1. It needs to be worth the standard action to use it. (Always true if you can drink it immediately before combat).
2. It needs to be obvious when you need it.
3. It needs to be better than a scroll.
4. It needs to be relatively inexpensive
healing potions meet all the requirements.
1. It's often worth a standard action not to die if you think the foe's next attack is more likely to kill you than your next action would be to kill it.
2. It's pretty obvious when you're hurting and the cleric isn't coming.
3. If the cleric isn't there or isn't coming, the scroll does you no good. (Unless you're a cleric/druid/ranger/paladin/bard yourself)
4. For occasional use, they don't put too big a dent in the wallet. 50 gp is affordable at first level. 300 gp is affordable by 4th or 5th level. 750 gp is affordable by 8th and 9th level when you start to need it.
Oil of bless weapon also meets the requirements.
1. It's often worth a standard action to take DR 10/good away from your enemies--even more so if your enemies have DR 15/good and cold iron and you don't have a holy weapon.
2. It's often obvious when you're facing a demon and your attacks aren't scratching it.
3. Sure the cleric can cast align weapon and the paladin can cast bless weapon...on one person per round. If you've three melee damage dealers in the party, having the oil lets you all get in on the action on round 2--instead of one person getting an attack late in round 1, another person getting in late in round 2, and another person getting into the fight in round 3 (assuming the cleric has 3 align weapon spells prepared--it's more likely that he only has one and then two people are reduced to using actions to Aid Other the one that can actually harm their foe or using power attack and hoping for a 20).
4. By the time you need them, the 100gp for oil of bless weapon is dirt cheap. At the lower levels, just having silver and cold iron weapons will usually be enough. At levels 7-14, 100gp is a drop in the bucket.
Goblyn said:
