D&D 5E I hate rapiers. Do you?

Do you like the way 5e has handled rapiers?

  • Absolutely not! I hate, hate, hate the way 5e has handled rapiers.

    Votes: 50 21.6%
  • I dislike 5e rapiers so much I have houseruled a nerf on them.

    Votes: 17 7.4%
  • I like rapiers, and I eat paste.

    Votes: 89 38.5%
  • I only participate in polls with leading questions.

    Votes: 75 32.5%

5ekyu

Hero
Here is my issue...

Why have a melee character with STR at all?

With the Rapier rules you can have a d8 melee weapon AND cover your AC with the same stat. You can "dump stat" your STR (or at least minimize it for heavy armour use) and still get your full melee bonus'. The long sword has become obsolete!

Thematically, it's even worse!! You have a bunch of plate armoured fighters running around with fencing weapons AND A SHIELD!??!

I don't understand why the change happened (other than someone's fetish for steampunk style thematics) instead of just leaving the Finesse Feat in the system for people who wanted to be DEX based. If this was all about the Rogue/Swashbuckler, then make the Finesse Feat a class feature at 2nd level. Personally I'll be house ruling that finess only gives DEX bonus to to-hit, damage bonus still comes from STR. Or, maybe I'll just say that you lose the finess feature if you use a shield. Or both.

Either way, the Rapier is a "broken" feature of the system and needs review.
Nope.
I am fine with them.
That said, I prefer the d6 light finesse weapons myself.
I just dont get all up at arms over a single die step difference with loss of light.
 

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ad_hoc

(they/them)
Thread necromancy noted.

Here is my issue...

Why have a melee character with STR at all?

With the Rapier rules you can have a d8 melee weapon AND cover your AC with the same stat. You can "dump stat" your STR (or at least minimize it for heavy armour use) and still get your full melee bonus'. The long sword has become obsolete!

That just isn't true. There is a fairly recent thread that goes into why Strength is important if you care to read it.

A rapier is just a finesse weapon with 1 more damage, it doesn't really make that big of a difference.

Thematically, it's even worse!! You have a bunch of plate armoured fighters running around with fencing weapons AND A SHIELD!??!

I have never seen this.

It sounds like you may have some very fringe group think going on.
 

Thematically for the worst image I hesitate between the rapier and the quarter staff and shield.
DnD is a weirdo combo of medieval & renaissance era. So the rapier can fit.
So the winning worst image is the quarter staff and shield.
 

Wiseblood

Adventurer
Apparently I already voted on this one some time ago. I wonder how I voted. If I were me I would...... I give up. I don’t know how I would vote. I don’t want to appear wishy-washy and contradict myself so my vote stands. All in favor say aye. Aye. The aye has it. Is there other business on the docket?
 

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
Here is my issue...

Why have a melee character with STR at all?

Grappling, shoving, Strength checks and saves, Great Weapon Master, Polearm master, Various UA weapon feats if you allow them.

With the Rapier rules you can have a d8 melee weapon AND cover your AC with the same stat. You can "dump stat" your STR (or at least minimize it for heavy armour use)

Getting strength up to 15 is still a significant investment unless you rolled stats or found an appropriate magic item, neither of which is something you can rely on. Studded Leather and Half Plate cost far less and are one a single point of AC behind.

The long sword has become obsolete!
Versatile weapons definitely could use more space. A Feat and Fighting style would do it IMHO.

I don't understand why the change happened (other than someone's fetish for steampunk style thematics) instead of just leaving the Finesse Feat in the system for people who wanted to be DEX based. If this was all about the Rogue/Swashbuckler, then make the Finesse Feat a class feature at 2nd level. Personally I'll be house ruling that finess only gives DEX bonus to to-hit, damage bonus still comes from STR. Or, maybe I'll just say that you lose the finess feature if you use a shield. Or both.

While I 'm not one to play dex fighters, I know plenty who love the type and playing one out of the box without a feat tax is a good thing for them. And there are enough of them that it makes it good for the system. After all their purchases are financing stuff from WotC just like mine do. Very likely stuff I will be interested in playing will be included too.

Casting a wide net toward players is a good idea.

Either way, the Rapier is a "broken" feature of the system and needs review.

I'm glad you have "broken" in quotes for as much as I dislike the rapier it doesn't break anything. I can and am currently playing a Strength based Barbarian that tears through mobs of low AC low HP enemies with GWM and even without it do more damage than a rapier wielding fop could hope to reach. And I'll out live that fop even if he is wearing fullplate and a shield too.
 
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Coroc

Hero
How come that every five minutes a new muh rapiers dare to do 1d8 although they can be keyed of dex thread pops up, otoh no one except me seems to be bothered about total OP quarterstaff 1d8 like a spearcan be used 1 handed (utter bull!) with a shield (utter bull2!) and polearm master applies to it OP af!

A real rapier is longer than a long sword and weighs the same. It is so heavy that you need a main gaucheor a buckler or a cloak or at least a thick leather glove to parry effectively. It can otoh easily deflect much heavier weapons.
 

5ekyu

Hero
How come that every five minutes a new muh rapiers dare to do 1d8 although they can be keyed of dex thread pops up, otoh no one except me seems to be bothered about total OP quarterstaff 1d8 like a spearcan be used 1 handed (utter bull!) with a shield (utter bull2!) and polearm master applies to it OP af!

A real rapier is longer than a long sword and weighs the same. It is so heavy that you need a main gaucheor a buckler or a cloak or at least a thick leather glove to parry effectively. It can otoh easily deflect much heavier weapons.
Why rapier and not staff shield? DEX.
Dex sticks in the craw of some.
 



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