I have a problem.... [DMing]

[Nyaricus]

It seems to me as though I have an issue as the (main) DM for my group.

Rules knowledge? Nope. I'm basically the rules lawyer for the group.
Big, over-arching plot-lines? Nada, I'm FULL of those!

No, it seems as though my problem, my most vexing of issues, is that I'm just no good at the minor details of a plot. I'm great with wars of this faction and this faction and the other underground group doing this other thing which interacts with them, and the geography (I'm famous for my spur-of-the-moment maps, diagrams and basic drawings ) and the impacts the players have with the world. I'm great with that stuff.

Here's the conversation I had with him which finally allowed me to "put my finger on it"

F: If I can offer an opinion?
Me: Feedback et al is always appreciated
F: While I think you had the main plot of the whole long running campaign and what was going on in the lands thought out, the smaller interactions may have been somewhat lacking.
Me: ding ding. That's my problem.
F: One thing I've always found while playing, and this goes for D&D and video games and even books, is that it's not the large scale plot you're looking for. It's the smaller interactions with-in that plot.
Me: okay, well why do you go looking for those smaller interactions? What draws you to them?
F: Well, it's not so much that I go looking for them. It's that they keep me going; think of it almost as if every interaction is a chapter of the story. Evey major interaction that is.

---

I guess what I could say it comes down to is that I worry too much about fitting in what the players are doing to the plot than having the plot fit around what the players are doing. That is, if the players completely take my plot out to the cleaners, I don't deal with it that well. I try to steer away from that cliche of "trying to write a story with a D&D campaign" and yet I feel as if I draw ever-closer. I can get kinda anxious game day because I feel worried about the plots and the players and everything. It's a downer.

So, I've been mulling and thinking and maybe what I need to do is start off small; organic. Get my players for make some level 1s and go "play in the dirt" a bit around a small town, and not even worry about an over-arching plots.

Does anyone else have any similar issues with their D&D games they've experienced, and if so how have you overcome them? I'm still trying to handle mine, but I almost feel after that conversation with my friend as if I took a breathe of fresh air and I understand things just that much more. If anyone else has any insights into this, I'd love to hear them

thanks,
--N

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

I don't know whether I should be posting here given that I've never managed to DM despite thinking about it for a while.

But the fact is I sometimes feel the same way: it's easy to think about the big world and its interactions, but bring the view down to the micro-level and my brain hits a brick wall. In my case it's a near-total brick wall: I don't get why anyone does anything at the small level or how any of it works.

However, there are times when I do feel like maybe I understand it. I think it generally comes about when I'm not really thinking the situation through. I'm not an expert, so I can't guarantee that this is great advice, but here's my idea:
Don't think much, and certainly don't plan much. Have a vague "big idea", then design lots of random stuff to do and integrate it haphazardly and/or after the fact.

 

[Ginnel]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by smaller interactions?

A Trip to the shop?
A quest?
Random NPC's
Description of the town they are in?

Is it this the off cuff stuff, coming up with small stuff from the top of your head?

If so I'd recommend cliches if its not an important character in your plot pick someone from a campaign add on/book/film/computer game and change a few details like the description.

For example the players wanted to visit the Harmonium in a planescape campaign I was running, and I was like crap I need a couple of characters the players can roleplay with for a bit.

Que searching my memory for guards, Ok in comes Nobby from the discworld books a little commoner in uniform with a bit of a sneer, and also his comrade for the moment Law the rogue modron who I took some inspiration from Robocop (he referred to everyone As Designation [characters name]), when they got into meet the sergeant I made him a not so clever drill sergeant esq half orc but because I liked Law I had him take more of a role in proceedings and developed him a bit.

Thinking of names don't bother unless the PC's ask, if your really not that good with them have a list of first names and surnames behind your screen and mark them off as you use them, (especially useful if your wanting a foreign sounding setting).

If I'm way off the track please explain smaller interactions please

 

[Lore Raithbone]

Well, here is something you could try: run a 1st level murder mystery. The players are the local town guards/hired to help the guards, and it will help you with NPC interaction while at the same time playing to your strength of being able to tell a good overall story.

Here is the prep for it: make a flowchart. Start with "scene of the crime" then figure out a few different 'paths' the players can go down. Do they talk to the local criminal underworld? Do they find a clue at the scene that points them somewhere else? Do they talk to known acquaintances?

Draw up a few personalities for each 'encounter' (and hell, use the skill challenge rules for some of the encounters, have a fight with thugs for the criminal underworld element, use those new 4e rules to your advantage) - and there you go. Meaningful small interactions between the NPCs that leads to the big reveal at the end when they gather enough clues.

Additionally, feel free to give the PCs the illusion of choice; sure, they can go to the local bar - the bartender tells them to follow "A cocky young thief back to his gang's hideout' just as said thief drunkenly swaggers out of his seat. They can interview the shopkeeper across the street, who says "Oh, yeah, the victim's friends were always about the place, practically every day!" - pointing them towards talking to the acquaintances. Additionally, all of the encounters will lead up to the final, dramatic scene at the end; the fight underground with the evil cultists responsible for the murder, with some of the very NPCs they spoke to earlier held hostage!

Or whatever. Make the NPCs interesting by 1) giving them names 2) giving them a mannerism (smokes, talks funny, absentminded, paranoid, etc). Feel free to have some of the NPCs show up in the big scene at the end. Reward player skills by setting up both normal fights and skill challenges. Finally, no matter what 'route' the players take on your flowchart, it will all flow into the final encounter you design.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I guess what I could say it comes down to is that I worry too much about fitting in what the players are doing to the plot than having the plot fit around what the players are doing. That is, if the players completely take my plot out to the cleaners, I don't deal with it that well.

You've probably done a lot more work on your plot than the players have on their PCs, so it makes sense to fit the former to the latter rather than vice versa. I mean if you've set up a campaign where all the PCs are supposed to be soldiers fighting in the Great Orc War, which will culminate in a confrontation with the Dark Lord, and they all decide to be merchants because fighting is too dangerous then that's the players fault, not yours. So there could be a problem at the PC creation stage. They definitely have to be built with the motivation to follow your plot.

Some GMs create worlds rather than plots, or many optional plots set within a wider world, and allow the players almost total freedom to do what they want. That requires either a lot of work or a good talent for improv however.

Otoh there could be an issue with your plots being too fixed at the small scale. There's a tightrope to walk between being able to use your prepared material and giving the players a certain amount of freedom to refuse adventures or solve problems differently than you anticipated, for example allying with the 'wrong' side or giving the Amulet of Power to the BBEG.

 

[pawsplay]

It sounds to me like the friend is expecting you to see the future: to allow the PCs to meander within your framework, while ending up in the right place in the end. So I think your players likely have some issues, it's not just you.

What you can do is to try introducing more complexity to your stories. Is there an over-arching villain? Throw in a rival, or a sometimes-friend-maybe-foe NPC. Is the world ending? Threaten something smaller, as well, like the town where the PCs call home. Questing for a legendary sword? It's cursed, and once the PCs retrieved it, they have more problems than before.

Don't be afraid to throw in a few "set pieces." Honestly, your PCs will find ways to tie it all together you never even thougth of. "What about that hag we made a deal with? Would she know anything about this?" etc. And if they don't, they interrupt the forced structure and allow more reality to creep in.

Try reading/watching LOTR again for some idea of how to fold smaller stories, interesting ones, into a bigger story.

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

Plot vs. Story

First thing you have to realize is that a plot does not equal a story. I read a lot of books on how stories are structured (writing stories, etc.) I try to make sure each scene has a reason.

Each scene should have some basic question that needs to be answered. The combat or challenge is the conflict that puts the resolution in jeopardy. It's why I've never been a fan of random encounters and why I'm always tinkering with published adventures when I actually run them.

Using a non-combat example, the PCs go to the store:

Why are the PCs going to the store? Is it just to buy equipment? If that's the case, then it doesn't need a scene. If they're investigating a murder, to use a previous poster's example, then there is the basic question:

Scene Question: Do the PCs find out that the gang is responsible for the murder?
Conflict: The shopkeeper is scared of the gang and won't rat them out unless he feels safe; a member of the gang shows up in the store to collect protection money half-way through the conversation.

Scene Answers: There are four possibilities -
Yes (boring) - they find the information and move on to the next step.
Yes, but - they find the information, but there is a complication that makes things worse or more dangerous (the gang finds out who ratted them out and the PCs find that the shop has been torched and the shopkeeper kidnapped)
No - The shopkeeper doesn't tell them a thing and tells them to go away (which may tell them something in and of itself)
No, and furthermore - The shopkeeper tells them to bug off and closes shop. The gang finds out someone is looking into them and decides to pay the PCs a little visit when they're least expecting it.

 

[Dlsharrock]

Non fiction or websites are both good sources for inspiration. Websites on potholing techniques and perils or history texts about mining for adding minutai to dungeon crawls. Wilderness and survival websites have given me good inspiration in the past, as have books on the habits of wild animals and stuff about geography. If the group need to get to the tower on the mountain to defeat your BBEG, read a mountaineer's blog, or flick through a book about mountain terrain and high altitude survival for some cool details.

Of course, that all requires a bit of time investment. But I've never been any good at the off-the-cuff improvisation stuff either. At least not around the tabletop. In pbp games it's easier because you have time to think.

 

[LostSoul]

Each scene should have some basic question that needs to be answered. The combat or challenge is the conflict that puts the resolution in jeopardy.

Yeah. Combine that with what the PCs want and you should be ready to go.

 

[Clavis]

I'm of the opinion that D&D took a wrong turn at Dragonlance. After that DMs felt like if they weren't telling some kind of grand story they were somehow inadequate. It's simply not true. In my opinion, D&D plays best when the DM is not trying to tell a story or make the PCs part of a pre-decided plot. Instead, a DM can simply create an interesting location, make some NPCs who want things from the PCs, and let the players create the story by their actions.

Random generation is your friend. Love random generation. Random generation will create interesting ideas that you would never think of on your own, things that players can run with in ways you couldn't plan on. The magic happens when you stop trying to make things special, and just let them be. Also, if you use random generation, you won't be upset when the players don't take your intricately worked out plot hooks.

Some practical techniques:

Determine upon an NPC's motivation - what they want from the PCs: (d6)
1. Flattery
2. Money
3-4. A service
4. Companionship/Love
5. Information

Roll again to determine how the NPC plans on obtaining what they want from the PCs.

Think of various adventure locales that are implied by the NPC's desires. Example: An NPC lost a family heirloom to bandits, and wants it back. He will offer money if the PCs raid the bandit camp.

Spend a session just allowing the PCs to interact with the NPCs. At the end of the session, ask them what adventure/quest they are following up on. Write that adventure, and run it next session. Repeat the cycle, and what you will find is that the players will create the storyline themselves, as they develop certain interests and relationships. Plus, you'll have very happy players who feel like they have maximum creative input into the game they play. All you have to do is remember to make the PCs trouble magnets, and just apply Murphy's law to everything they do. Thrilling adventures guaranteed.

Also, old-school site-based adventures consisting of a map and key without a pre-decided plot allow the players to create the story themselves through play. You'll be amazed at how a story will emerge on it's own.