I killed my first PC tonight


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Patryn of Elvenshae said:
Right, because a meatgrinder is the only way to have fun. :rolleyes:
I'm not talking meatgrinder. I just find it a bit hard to believe that players using their very first every characters have made it to 4th level without dying. There is a learning curve for all games, and d20 Fantasy is no exception.

It is possible I'm thinking too much in terms of AD&D. d20 Fantasy tends to make it easier on the PCs.
 

First off, I know that killing characters isn't enjoyable in itself. It sucks. IamTheTest, you have my sympathy on this.

I need advice. What should I do? Im thinking about giving out action points so that death is still a possibility but it is more avoidable. Maybe an NPC cleric could do the trick. Help?

There are several possible options. Each do not exclude the use of another:

- Having the PCs know of a Temple practicing Raise Dead and Resurrection spells. It could become a quest in itself to gather the funds or "pay in service" for such a spell. This is the easiest path, but also the most damaging I think, because it makes death meaningless - hence the necessary price for such a come back.

- Try to make it clear with your players that a character death isn't ever useless. It is good for the story, because it provides players with drama. What is the reaction of the characters to their buddy's death? How does this affect the group? What are their opinions regarding each other's reaction, and how does it affect their relationships and the party's alchemy? The death of a party member shouldn't go unnoticed or be considered as a detail of the campaign.

- There is nothing more frustrating than a meaningless character death. Try to make sense of it in future adventures. Realizing that the character's death actually allows the PCs to fulfill whatever quest/mission they want to succeed. For instance, a temple dedicate to a deity of death or a dead deity may only allow people who themselves know the death of relatives within its walls/ruins/boundaries. For dead gods, the supplement Requiem for a God of Malhavoc Press is great.

- It is an event of the campaign. It is an element you can use as a DM to spawn adventures. Think about the possible consequences of the character's death. Perhaps the druids of her grove will contact the party? Perhaps these druids "felt" her death and know of a solution to bring her back? Or perhaps they weren't and hold the party responsible, asking them to make amends for this? What about the family of the dead character? Perhaps the party will meet a relative in one of the next towns they'll visit? Will they lie about it? What if this relative is a Wizard able to detect lies?

- This is an opportunity for the player with the dead character. She has a number of options: she can create a new and improved character. Or she may want to play her. You could allow her to play a Ghost/Spirit, for instance: Ghostwalk Campaign Option may be very useful for that. Or, if she really isn't the kind of player with metagame issues, you could allow her to play a relative. Be careful on that one: some players like to bring new characters knowing their old one so that they can get RL revenge within the game. This isn't good because it makes the player very much involved emotionally and brings a risk of argument at the game table.

I hope this helps,
Odh
 
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Gentlegamer said:
Let the dice fall where they may.


(They made it to 4th level with their first characters without dying? I think you have been too easy on them.)

My goodness you are bloodthirsty for someone with such a friendly moniker! :p

I think it's perfectly possible to play a suspenseful game without killing off PCs willy-nilly. The perception that D&D must be extremely deadly to be fun seems quite alien to me. IMHO there needs to be a balance between "let the dice fall" and let the game be fun. For some people there is no distinction, but that's not the case for all.

It sounds like you have a good plan in mind to discuss this with your players, IamTheTest. See what the player wants to do, and then try to accomodate that as best you can without too much house-ruling or bending the plot.

In our group we allow wands to be purchased at half price if they have only 50% charges. This helps us maintain our healing ability when our funds are low.
 

Congratulations! It's actually one of those little experiences I call a necessity for being a DM, an "acid test" like reinstalling an OS from scratch for a dedicated computer user. :)

More seriously, I'd recommend the same things that BullMarkOne did. I wouldn't be "soft" and retcon a PC death, but I wouldn't be that harsh either.

In a day long gone by, having PCs die made the players want to jump in and play all the harder. However, in current times there's a more emotional attachment for characters, and PC deaths tend to be frowned upon. Whether this is a good or bad thing is debated, as you can no doubt tell from other responses in this thread. :)

I am curious from the answers of respondents like Patryn and Sniffles - what would you consider "meatgrinder-excessive" rates of characters dying off? One per ten sessions? One per four? One per twenty? One per campaign?
 
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I killed my first PC tonight

I second the Congrats!

Killing a character at fourth level and above is so much more gratifying then at earlier levels. A low level PC death leaves me feeling hollow.

Seriously though, you laid out a good scenerio, and the players failed to execute. No harm, no foul. IMHO character deaths must be a possibility in every major encounter. Otherwise your making the game less enjoyable for your players by taking away the tension and excitement. If the characters were undefeatable, and easily slayed all that stood in their way, you would all likely lose interest in the game.
 

In a serious roleplaying campaign I ran, between first level and 14th, I think I had seven or eight PC deaths. None of my players were upset, but as i wasn't using raise dead or resurrection much it really messed up the feeling of continuity. Basically, we looked at the PC's one day and realized none of them were there for the events that sparked the campaign. None of them really knew what was going on.

I used to believe, let the dice fall where they may, and in a pure adventure for its own sake campaign, I still will. But if you have an epic plot and want some measure of continuity, find ways to reduce character deaths... or get past the prejudice against resurrection that, for instance, I had., and let the PC's come back.


On the other hand, the threat of death should still, somehow, seem real. Your choice.:)
 

Well, I think that if the druid comes back she would be well advised to have an animal companion to help her fight. Did the players make more than 1 heal check each? I believe that you can keep trying heal checks until they fall to -10, so the odds are good of saving someone.

Something you could try doing is having the party find a captive who is level four who the player whose druid died can play until her druid is ressurected. There isn't much you can do when a PC dies because you need the threat of danger in it to be fun, but dying still sucks.
 


Players hate losing characters. You need to head it off right away. Two things:

1. In your house rules, note that this is a dangerous campaign and that you had better ready to have your character killed off and not pout about it and that only characters who die are truly memorable..or some such b.s.

2. ALWAYS have your players have a 2nd character ready. Since they rarely do, I always post a bunch to our group discussions at YAHOOGROUPS and put them in the FILES section. Here are our replacement characters and 'table rules' (not the same as house rules):

5-6-05

So, I quizzed everybody on what they'd like to see improved in the game.
It's all little things, but mostly it revolves around getting more play-time
out of our already short sessions.

Here is our list of table rules that resulted from player and DM feedback:

1. DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT SITTING DOWN AT THE TABLE UNTIL YOUR
CHARACTER IS FINISHED AND HAS A ROLE-PLAYABLE BACKGROUND THAT WILL CONTRIBUTE TO THE FUN OF THE OTHER PLAYERS.

2. NON-GAME TALK ACROSS THE TABLE IS FROWNED UPON. If you have to
talk to someone about something out of game, step away from the table or
do it before or after we play.

3. CLEAR OFF THE TABLE. SNACKS NEED TO BE PASSED AROUND AND THEN PUT ON THE SNACK TABLE.

4. DO NOT ORDER FOOD UNLESS IT WILL BE THERE ____BEFORE___ WE START.

5. WE MEET AT 6:00 AND START PLAYING AT 6:30. WE QUIT AT 10:30. We
all need to unload our week's stresses before we start, so get there
early so we can game. If you're late, we don't want to hear about the
traffic. The only thing we want to hear is,"..and Krusk comes running up
to save the day. I got an 18 on my initiative."

6. IN-CHARACTER. Either be in the game or don't. We appreciate
players who contribute to the game. A monkey can roll dice and report
numbers. That contributes nothing to the game or to the fun of anyone else.
Refer to your fellow players by their character names while we are at the
table and justify your skill rank assignments and feats with some kind of story.

7. RELATE TO THE OTHER CHARACTERS. Create two non-obvious things your
character has in common with at least one other character.

8. BACK-UP CHARACTER. Here are your assigned backup characters if you
do not already have one (modify it if you like).

Ward.......Theteles the Ophirian (Hyborian),Ftr-2/Brd-2 (hp26;
AC15; Melee+7/Rng+7; Saves FRW+6/+5/+3 Skill pts:34; Feats: Spell
penetration, greater spell penetration; negotiator; exotic weapon
proficiency; GEAR: mwk studded leather; mwk buckler; mwk heavy
repeating xbow; mwk ranseur; mwk heavy flail

Reynolds...Khossus the Kothian (Hyborian),Rog-4 (hp20; AC 17;
Melee +5/Rng+7; Saves FRW+2/+7/+1 Skill pts (70); Feats: Acrobatic;
Agile; GEAR: mwk studded leather, mwk buckler, mwk hand crossbow,
mwk longspear, mwk dagger, mwk club

Christy......Alcina the Barachan Islander, Mnk-2/wiz2; (hp14; AC13;
unarmed+3; Flurry+1/1; Melee +5; Ranged +4; Saves: F/R/W/+5/+6/+9
Skill pts(24); Feats: improved grapple; deflect arrows; combat
casting; improved initiative

Sean.........Chunder of Vendyhan, Rgr-4(nonspell) (hp 34; AC 17;
Melee+7/Rng+8; SavesF/R/W/:+5/+7/+2; Skill pts(42); Feats: exotic
weapon proficiency, combat reflexes; GEAR: mwk studded leatehr; mwk
bolas (3); mwk heavy pick

Kevin........Tut-Ahk-Amon the Stygian, Rog-2/Clr-2 (hp24; AC 17;
Melee+5/Rng+7; SAVES F/R/W: +6/+4/+5; Skill pts (52); Feats:
Endurace, Diehard; GEAR: mwk studded leather; mwk buckler; mwk short
khopesh(sword); (4) mwk daggers

Steve........Drago of Aquilonia, Ftr-4 (hp34; AC 18; Melee+8/Rng+6;
Saves: F+6(+8), R+2(+4), W+2; Skill pts(14); Feats: Great Fortitude;
Lightning Reflexes; Two-weapon fighting(dex 15 req); exotic weapon
proficiency: GEAR: SPlint, heavy shield, masterwork
two-bladed-sword; 4 javelins

Sumit........Wulfhere of Hyperborea, Bbn-4 (hp35; AC 17;
Melee+8/Rng+7; Saves F/R/W: +5/+3/+2; Skill pts(28); Feats: Blind
Fight, Exotic Weapon proficiency; GEAR: Mwk breastplate, masterwork
war-axe; (4) spears

Hohler.....Balthus the Gunderman, Ftr-4 (hp34; AC 18;
Melee+8/Rng+6; Saves: F+6, R+2, W+2; Skill pts(14); Feats: Animal
Affinity; Mounted Combat; Trample; exotic weapon proficiency: GEAR:
SPlint, heavy shield, masterwork dire flail; 4 spears



jh

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