D&D (2024) I like the new Warlock

[Shardstone]

Because of just how hard you seem to be trying to attempt to deny how bad this warlock is.

If Mystic Arcana, as your post indicated, is actually all that then any sensible person would accept that it is unequivocal that the warlock took some utterly and truly savage nerfs in this version. They had mystic arcana and high level invocations.

Or to put things another way if WotC think that Mystic Arcana were what warlocks needed to keep up they should have made them into class features. Which they did in the 2014 warlock. But took away for this cheap knock off.

In other words your attempt to claim that Mystic Arcana give the D&Done warlock what it needs is a damning criticism of that warlock.

I find it very strange that you had the sheer nerve to call my comparisons shallow and claim I don't see the forest for the trees. Despite the fact that I'm the one who's been talking about how the whole package fits together and the one who's been providing numbers and analysis while your defences of this warlock appear to be all vibes-based and many of them are, like your latest, self-refuting.

Goodbye

Lmao I was talking about your argument, not you, and if you were offended you could have said so and I would have apologized. You chose to escalate, not me. Goodbye!

 

[tetrasodium]

Should invocations like agonizing blast and ect. Be added into the pacts like tomb gets cha at lvl5 and blade uses cha to attack. That makes certain invocations free for that pact but others pay a tax. I do kinda think that mystic arcanum should be free. At least the 6-9th ones.

No, not in tier one at least. One of the goals wotc has exprezsex is to avoid making a particular dip feel mandatory. That's a long overdue goal I agree with a thousand percent

 

[mellored]

Should invocations like agonizing blast and ect. Be added into the pacts like tomb gets cha at lvl5 and blade uses cha to attack. That makes certain invocations free for that pact but others pay a tax. I do kinda think that mystic arcanum should be free. At least the 6-9th ones.

I think the level 9 pact specific nvocations should be included in the "Cantrip upgrade".

Which would put you 3 invocations over the current one. Effectively paying for Mystic Arcanum.

The make Hex a warlock only spell, that doesn't take concentration (possibly at level 5), and boost any damage you do (i.e. saving throws) . And then you can have some other things tied to it, like dark ones blessings when the target dies, or an invocations that allows for double targets.

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

If Mystic Arcana, as your post indicated, is actually all that then any sensible person would accept that it is unequivocal that the warlock took some utterly and truly savage nerfs in this version. They had mystic arcana and high level invocations.

Or to put things another way if WotC think that Mystic Arcana were what warlocks needed to keep up they should have made them into class features. Which they did in the 2014 warlock. But took away for this cheap knock off.

my issue is that you get 1 extra invocation but even if we say you don't need the 3rd 4th and 5th level slots, you need to spend 4 to just get back to having a 6th 7th 8th and 9th level ones

 

[Neonchameleon]

I think the level 9 pact specific nvocations should be included in the "Cantrip upgrade".

Which would put you 3 invocations over the current one. Effectively paying for Mystic Arcanum.

The make Hex a warlock only spell, that doesn't take concentration (possibly at level 5), and boost any damage you do (i.e. saving throws) . And then you can have some other things tied to it, like dark ones blessings when the target dies, or an invocations that allows for double targets.

There's also a matter of timing. Making the 1-9 experience better (which is another argument) doesn't change the back half experience being awful.

my issue is that you get 1 extra invocation but even if we say you don't need the 3rd 4th and 5th level slots, you need to spend 4 to just get back to having a 6th 7th 8th and 9th level ones

1 extra - and a second folded in to your pact boon. But yes. (And I've pointed out in another thread casting first or second level spells in combat using a standard action is basically almost never worth the slot cost compared to Eldritch Blast plus Agonizing Blast - so you definitely need third level slots at 5th level).

 

[Chaosmancer]

That's a different argument to a different point, and has nothing to do with the fact that Warlocks have more utility than Fighters, and can choose to spend more resources to have more one-off utility than Rangers and Paladins. I'm uninterested in any part of this debate outside of the actual core premise.

Sorry, the other person must have me blocked, because I didn't see that argument. To the point though...

Of course warlocks have more utility than fighters, so do basically every other class in the game.

More utility than Rangers and Paladins... I'm not sure, and it depends on what we mean by utility. Paladins, probably, because paladins lean into support and healing rather than utility. But rangers have lots of utility, especially with their spells.

I think the Ranger might out utility the Warlock. It is pretty close. What do we mean by utility here?

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I definitely think they should bring over Eldritch Smite from Xanathar's Guide as it's a big thing if one has Pact of the Blade. And they should certainly bring over all of the Blade Cantrips like Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade, since they're quite essentially for many magical warrior type concepts (though maybe not necessarily the Warlock). They shouldn't have those confined to an expansion for later, they should be in the core.

 

[Valetudo]

No, not in tier one at least. One of the goals wotc has exprezsex is to avoid making a particular dip feel mandatory. That's a long overdue goal I agree with a thousand percent

I dont know what you mean by teir one. But if you mean 1st lvl, I wasnt suggesting that. Bladelicks get cha on melee in the playtest which already makes it a better dip than before for some multiclass builds. Half casting works better for multiclassing also. I'm thinking the tomblock getting agonizing blast at lvl5 is a long stretch to get it for multiclassing.

 

[mellored]

I definitely think they should bring over Eldritch Smite from Xanathar's Guide as it's a big thing if one has Pact of the Blade.

all the other invocations are probably still on the table.

And they should certainly bring over all of the Blade Cantrips like Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade, since they're quite essentially for many magical warrior type concepts

Seems like those might be a bladesinger Cantrip.
It's too easy for rogues to grab it (high elf) and just stack damage.

 

[tetrasodium]

I dont know what you mean by teir one. But if you mean 1st lvl, I wasnt suggesting that. Bladelicks get cha on melee in the playtest which already makes it a better dip than before for some multiclass builds. Half casting works better for multiclassing also. I'm thinking the tomblock getting agonizing blast at lvl5 is a long stretch to get it for multiclassing.

Level tiers. Wotc has published them in a few places but I'm not looking them up. I think that tier 1 is 1-4, tier2 5-10, tier3 11 to ummmm... 16 maybe? Pretty sure tier4 is 17-20.