D&D General "I make a perception check."

[GMforPowergamers]

"I have my character emulate Archie Goodwin and Saul Panzer and search (dissect) the room. The kind of thing that would take 2 hours if I was trying to not leave the place a mess and was just looking for anything suspicious... but I'm not particularly worried about neatness and you can stop me every time we get to a cup so that we can take a hard look at it. I start on the left wall by the door and work my way around clock-wise."

"What do Archie and Saul do to search?"

"I have no idea, but they're the best at tearing apart rooms and finding all the hidden things. And my character's level and skills should put me about how good they are."

yup... this "How do you do it?" "I can't tell you cause I can't do it, but my character can"

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I'm not sure if there's some kind of disconnect here, but I don't have any power over people's speech as DM. You're free to say what you want.

becuse you keep saying you DO police wording... it's all a word game to me, and one I have less thenn 0 intrest in, so in a game like that I would call a skill and just ask "what do you want me to say to use my character skill"

You shouldn't want to roll though. That's bad strategy.

did you miss the 'or just use the skill with no roll' part?

If we're making the attack roll, then by definition it isn't a "perfect attack." The outcome is uncertain and there's a meaningful consequence for failure.

so in combat a real world sword expert describes an attack that would bypass the sheild and plate armor... do you make them roll?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

In my mind, "Your sill is so high there is no chance of failure, so don't bother rolling if you don't want," is different than determining the DC based on the person attempting it. I don't like the latter. How hard something is (from a "physics" perspective) is independent of the person trying it. That person's skill determines their individual chance of success, obviously.

to me I shouldn't set different DCs, but I do have a house rule where trained auto succussed on DC11 or less (even saves and AC/attacks) and me and another DM are toying with testing increasing that to 10+ the stat mod or the stat itself (meaning a dex 20 prof in acrobatics would auto succussed on either DC 15s or 20s depending on how we went)
I just don't let a good or bad description by pass a character flaw...

 

[Cadence]

yup... this "How do you do it?" "I can't tell you cause I can't do it, but my character can"

Well, I know enough fictional detectiving that if I'm looking for something thin and there is a book case I should apparently add a couple more hours to do it well... (Unless the author Rex Stout's made up numbers for how long it takes them to do it are way off ;-) ).

 

[iserith]

becuse you keep saying you DO police wording... it's all a word game to me, and one I have less thenn 0 intrest in, so in a game like that I would call a skill and just ask "what do you want me to say to use my character skill"

It's all a "word game" to you, but describing what you want to do is just "the game" to me. It's right in the rules under "How to Play." For some, "I make a Perception check" is enough. But there's no support in the rules for that and doing so cedes control to the DM to assume or establish what the character is doing, which is not the DM's role.

did you miss the 'or just use the skill with no roll' part?

You are free to collaborate with anyone you wish.

so in combat a real world sword expert describes an attack that would bypass the sheild and plate armor... do you make them roll?

Maybe. Lacking vital context, I have to leave open the possibility that any action declaration might be automatic success, automatic failure, or that there will be a check of some kind.

 

[Reynard]

to me I shouldn't set different DCs, but I do have a house rule where trained auto succussed on DC11 or less (even saves and AC/attacks) and me and another DM are toying with testing increasing that to 10+ the stat mod or the stat itself (meaning a dex 20 prof in acrobatics would auto succussed on either DC 15s or 20s depending on how we went)
I just don't let a good or bad description by pass a character flaw...

Yeah, the question of whether something is an autosuccess or not is dependent upon the thing being done. For example, if one character hid under the kitchen table and the other hid in the pantry with the door closed, I would only make the one hiding under the table make a roll when the ogre chef comes in and starts washing dishes. There is a door between the chef and the person in the pantry.

 

[Maxperson]

You seem to be missing the point. If you have a behavior in play you want to see, you should reward players for engaging in it.

When they are seeking information from the environment, is there any practical reason to give more than the most basic action description? Do you give bonuses for looking around in particular ways? Do you regularly and openly give advantage or disadvantage?

"Because that's the way it should be done," is not sufficient. If the details of their action declaration are irrelevant, if you discard them, they won't bother investing the effort in considering those details.

I do those things, as well as just say yes when a roll really isn't merited.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yeah, the question of whether something is an autosuccess or not is dependent upon the thing being done. For example, if one character hid under the kitchen table and the other hid in the pantry with the door closed, I would only make the one hiding under the table make a roll when the ogre chef comes in and starts washing dishes. There is a door between the chef and the person in the pantry.

and I would depend on the skill of the character at my table.
a paliden with 0 dex not prof in full plate "roll" to see if he hides behinde the door well... the expertise 20 dex roge...he ides under that table no roll

 

[GMforPowergamers]

and I would depend on the skill of the character at my table.
a paliden with 0 dex not prof in full plate "roll" to see if he hides behinde the door well... the expertise 20 dex roge...he ides under that table no roll

example... that paliden rolls a 3 and a 7 with the disadvantage that is a 2 stealth.
maybe they don't get it in fast enough or they made some noise or there foot is sticking out... but the oger cook notices.

 

[Reynard]

and I would depend on the skill of the character at my table.
a paliden with 0 dex not prof in full plate "roll" to see if he hides behinde the door well... the expertise 20 dex roge...he ides under that table no roll

Serious question: why?