D&D General "I make a perception check."

[GMforPowergamers]

So you can come up with where a character might have learned a thing.

.yes and this doesn't prove that everyone can or even that i could on sny given day...

That’s the question you’re asking. The question I’m asking is “what do you want to know and where might your character have learned it?”

about the sigil, where ever I learned arcana from

It gives you everything you need. It doesn’t give me everything I need. They’re both perfectly valid approaches to DMing.

 

[Reynard]

i don't know what make the roll more or less necessary by how the action is declaired

This is actually the crux of the whole issue and I don't know how I can explain it any differently than I have the last 5 times.

 

[Reynard]

Where is this from?

Are you serious?

 

[Maxperson]

2 characters one with a +12 and the other with a +1...

the one with the +12 doesn't know what to say and bumbles through something bad he shouldn't say so the DM sets that DC at 30... he rolls a 16 (28 still godly) and fails
then the one with +1 states the perfect argument, says all the right word and the DM says "Okay you got it"

Yes and no.

"Hey king, why don't you and your wife jump in a moat?" ~ PC trying to persuade the king to do something
"Your majesty, if you loan us 100 troops we can clear out the orcs that plague the village of Omelet and establish a new garrison for you along the southern border." ~ PC trying to persuade the king to do something.

One of those is going to have a harder time of it.

On the other hand if one player stutters and isn't very charismatic but gets across the same point as the second example up there, the DC is going to be the same. I don't assign DCs based on how eloquent the players are, but rather about the content of what they are trying to say, funneled through the charisma and persuasion abilities of the PCs in question.

 

[Maxperson]

Are you serious?

Dead serious. Why is everything uncertain? Attacks? Sure. Shutting a door on your turn? Not at all uncertain. No roll. Moving a heavy rock off of your comrade? Yes. Grabbing a fist sized rock to throw at a goblin? No uncertainty. You pick it up.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

This is actually the crux of the whole issue and I don't know how I can explain it any differently than I have the last 5 times.

but the out come "will prince ken help" "do i see the trap/assassin" "do i know the lore" and "can i calm the queen" remains the same. why would my roll for a skill be more or less then yours.... up until now I thought we got to the skill check the same and after the skill check the same it was how we triggered "roll a XXX check" that was different

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yes and no.

"Hey king, why don't you and your wife jump in a moat?" ~ PC trying to persuade the king to do something
"Your majesty, if you loan us 100 troops we can clear out the orcs that plague the village of Omelet and establish a new garrison for you along the southern border." ~ PC trying to persuade the king to do something.

One of those is going to have a harder time of it.

this is either not getting the argument or disingenuous

the stakes of the roll, the what you want and the what skill you want isn;t changing in any other examples

On the other hand if one player stutters and isn't very charismatic but gets across the same point as the second example up there, the DC is going to be the same. I don't assign DCs based on how eloquent the players are, but rather about the content of what they are trying to say, funneled through the charisma and persuasion abilities of the PCs in question.

 

[Reynard]

Dead serious. Why is everything uncertain? Attacks? Sure. Shutting a door on your turn? Not at all uncertain. No roll. Moving a heavy rock off of your comrade? Yes. Grabbing a fist sized rock to throw at a goblin? No uncertainty. You pick it up.

Sure. I concede that I was talking about attack rolls. I feel like that was obvious from context, but apparently not.

So, given that, what was your argument?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Dead serious. Why is everything uncertain? Attacks? Sure. Shutting a door on your turn? Not at all uncertain. No roll. Moving a heavy rock off of your comrade? Yes. Grabbing a fist sized rock to throw at a goblin? No uncertainty. You pick it up.

agreed

heck I'm still amazed that there was 'no uncertainty' in finding a false bottom or secret chamber/compartment.

 

[Reynard]

but the out come "will prince ken help" "do i see the trap/assassin" "do i know the lore" and "can i calm the queen" remains the same. why would my roll for a skill be more or less then yours.... up until now I thought we got to the skill check the same and after the skill check the same it was how we triggered "roll a XXX check" that was different

Oh my. I am really trying not to get frustrated because I don't think you are asking out of bad faith, but it is hard.

The difficulty of the roll may or may not be at issue -- asking the king for a million gold versus asking for his help defeating the dragon ravaging his lands -- but the outcome is always dependent on the context of the position (physical, rhetorical, or otherwise). That is literally the job of the GM, to adjudicate outcomes.

I feel like maybe you expect more binary outcomes? I don't want to make assumptions tho.