D&D General "I make a perception check."

[GMforPowergamers]

I get what you're saying, but to properly adjudicate any situation there is a minimum level of information the GM needs to know. So a simple "I roll perception" statement doesn't qualify. I need to know where you are and very generally what actions you are taking. It might matter a lot.

so at that point can I 'phone a friend'? can I ask the table or the DM to help me relate what I want to do (use perception to check for danger)?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

There's no better evidence for the fact that D&D isn't one single game it's hundreds or thousands of different games than participating in threads around here.

People can be using the same set of rules, but every table runs a different game. And that always becomes clear as people in these threads provide more and more context about how they run/play their own games.

this needs to be pinned to the top of every discussion here on enworld... it is that true

 

[Charlaquin]

in fiction they can do this better I am actively perceiving for dangers

Can they? I don’t know because I don’t know what the character is doing. If you tell me what they’re doing, and it seems like it might fail, then I’ll ask you to make a check. Or if the result is obvious, I’ll just narrate it. But either way I don’t have enough information to proceed right now. In the interest of time I’m going to move on to what the other players want to do this turn, but I’ll circle back around to you before the end of the turn in case you think of something you’d like to do in the meantime.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

but would it be equally good for a 20th level rogue with maxed out stats and skills and a ton of experence as a 1st level wizard who never stepped foot in a dungeon has no stat or skill bonus to finding traps? does the characters skill matter at all?

When there is a chance of failure or success for a stated action, along with a meaningful consequence for failure then, yes, character skill matters.

 

[Reynard]

but would it be equally good for a 20th level rogue with maxed out stats and skills and a ton of experence as a 1st level wizard who never stepped foot in a dungeon has no stat or skill bonus to finding traps? does the characters skill matter at all?

It potentially does, based on context.

Let's say there is a tripwire in the hallway that triggers a trap. Both characters see it and it is a few inches off the floor. No roll should be necessary to step over it.

But if there was a web of tripwires you had to slither through to get to the other side without triggering the trap, then a roll would be needed.

Where I might depart from @Charlaquin is I would not differentiate between the characters who has to make the roll. If it requires a roll, everyone attempting it has to roll with the same ability versus the same DC. It may be that the 20th level rogue has no chance of failure, which is fine, but that is not the same thing as exempting them from the process.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Can they? I don’t know because I don’t know what the character is doing. If you tell me what they’re doing, and it seems like it might fail, then I’ll ask you to make a check. Or if the result is obvious, I’ll just narrate it. But either way I don’t have enough information to proceed right now. In the interest of time I’m going to move on to what the other players want to do this turn, but I’ll circle back around to you before the end of the turn in case you think of something you’d like to do in the meantime.

so same qustion for you as the others... can I ask for help out of game... can I explain "I want to find the way to describe it so I can make a perception check to see if there is danger" can I ask teh DM that, what about other players?

 

[Cruentus]

I get what you're saying, but to properly adjudicate any situation there is a minimum level of information the GM needs to know. So a simple "I roll perception" statement doesn't qualify. I need to know where you are and very generally what actions you are taking. It might matter a lot.

Exactly. To say "But my character isn't actually in the world and I (player) wasn't born there" is a cop out. If the game is being described and narrated by the GM properly, it is very easy to decide what you (player/character) might do in that situation.

It could be something like
"I search the room" - in which case, I, as the DM, after already having described what is in the room, might say "Are you opening the doors to the bureau? Are you looking behind the curtains? Are you picking up anything that is on the table?" The player/character can then yes/no those items, or describe an alternate way to interact with them.

Or it could be "First I'll take a look under the table, since that is closest, to see if anything is hidden under it. Then I'll look at what is on the table, but not touch anything."

In both cases, there is no rolling involved at all. As the DM, I know what is in and around and on those items.

Only if the player decides to interact in some way where failure is an option: "I check to see if the bureau is trapped. I'll peer at the lock itself to see if anything is out of the ordinary." (For me, and half competent thief would be able to tell a trapped lock by spending time looking at it, probably no roll even necessary); or "I'll stand to the side of the chest and whack my mace straight into the keyhole of the chest, so if there is a poison needle, it'll be blocked." Also perfectly fine, and might set the trap off with no ill effect, no roll necessary. Unless the trap is a poison gas.... (but I would also be less likely to actually do that kind of thing, without it being telegraphed, i.e. not in a random dungeon).

And as the DM, if the player asks "What do I know about this kind of lock?" If you're a thief, or even w fighter who worked as a blacksmith, I'd likely give some specifics without a roll about how difficult those locks typically are. Its mainly an effort on my part to be neutral, and adjudicate the game without gotchas and without it devolving to "roll this, roll that". The less rolls we do at the table, the smoother the game seems to go, and the more engaged the players are. Also, I will remind players about things they learned that they're not remembering that may be relevant "Remember last week when you spoke with the Seneschal, and he mentioned that this particular sect is known for using contact poison as a means of protecting their property." as the part explores their temple. No roll needed. (Although I'd be hoping that someone at the table was paying enough attention to write that down or remember it... )

 

[Reynard]

so at that point can I 'phone a friend'? can I ask the table or the DM to help me relate what I want to do (use perception to check for danger)?

Yes, absolutely. Like I said, I am not playing "gotcha." I want you to have fun and succeed. If you are having trouble "seeing" the game we can go back and forth. You can elicit help from your fellow players. I'll even give you suggestions if all else fails (although this is generally a last resort for me outside of new players).

 

[GMforPowergamers]

When there is a chance of failure or success for a stated action, along with a meaningful consequence for failure then, yes, character skill matters.

but does your determination of if there is a chance take the character skill into account? does the same declaration (as detailed or not) have the exact same 'chance of failure' i the roll would be at +17 as if it is at -1?

 

[iserith]

I don't see why that generous DM can't extend it to taking the context and helping do something...

would you let the +15 stealth rogue who the player doesn't know how to hide ask teh table "Hey guys ideas, what should my character do I don't know how to describe hideing?"

It's really not in my power to tell someone they can't talk to someone else.

to see how well the character does what the player described... is there a bit of plate esposed, did they make a noise, did they leave heavy foot prints... aka how well teh skill used

"Perfect hiding place" says to me that success is guaranteed.

so how do you teach that player to do better? can he ask "Hey as DM what should I be doing?" or like above can he ask the other players?

I can certainly tell the player what is required by the rules to have a chance at being hidden if that's not clear. I can also explain that if they don't describe what they want to do with reasonable specificity that it actually makes my role as DM harder to accomplish successfully. All that is needed is to say what you want to do and hope to accomplish. In most situations, that's a sentence at most and it needn't be done with dramatic flourishes or offensive accents or anything.