D&D General "I make a perception check."

[Reynard]

This assumes they really needed to in prior editions, either. The fact the game started out that way didn't make it necessary in any way.

Right, but presuming they had to in 1E (because, you know, the rules said they should) why shouldn't they in 5e?

 

[Reynard]

Yes, I agree. I mentioned mapping was an activity and someone responded that Moldvay Basic was so much better because it didn’t have this unnecessary step and mapping was a player activity and a useful visual aid instead of something the characters had to do to know where they are. It was weird.

I don't actually know how that works. Assuming I am running a dungeon (regardless of edition) and presuming I am not just handing them a map (in all the ways that's possible) the PCs probably should so some mapping. But, if they choose not to that's up to them. But I'm not going to draw one for them.

As an aside that is one of the things I hate most about VTTs. I have not found one that let's the PCs map while simultaneously letting me drop in a battlemap when necessary.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah, so when people say you’re dictating how the characters are allowed to act? That’s what they mean.

Talking to a player out of game about behavior that doesn't fit the group is not dictating how characters are allowed to act. That player is being a disruption and it sounds like they handled it properly.

 

[Celebrim]

Isn’t this the “magic words“ hoop that we all say we decry?

Not really. The magic words hoop is when the DM designs one single solution to a problem and refuses all solutions until the PCs say the magic words that are his envisioned solution. This is similar to what it's like to play an adventure game where traditionally every puzzle has some single solution that you have to do like paint the fish and then hang it from the neck of the goat.

 

[Maxperson]

Huh? I’m talking about the characters making a map.

Unless someone has that memory feat, they need to map as well. Or else they're probably getting lost in any dungeon of decent size.

 

[DragonBelow]

I have had this argument with players constantly, and every time remind them that they need to explain what they are doing, how they are "making a perception" check. For a couple of them, itis just ingrained 3.x habits that they are working to shake. But for a couple others they just can't seem to grok that "I make a perception check" is not an actual thing.

::sigh:: /end rant

So-and-so you want to roll perception? ok, but what is your character doing?

 

[Charlaquin]

So-and-so you want to roll perception? ok, but what is your character doing?

This, I think, is not a good idea. It will only embarrass and anger the player, which is not a good way to win them over on the style of action resolution. Quite the contrary, it will likely put them off of it.

 

[delericho]

So-and-so you want to roll perception? ok, but what is your character doing?

"I'm trying to perceive what is around me."

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Isn’t this the “magic words“ hoop that we all say we decry?

yup...

just think of a movie you REALLY like, and your best friend or significant other DOESN'T like... it shouldn't be that hard. Now imagine you wanted to take some inspiration from it. You know that friend/SO would most likely not going to like this inspiration as much as you.

Example: I sit down to a super hero game... the GM loves Sandman, Hellblaser and Lucifer from the old vertigo line (you can get the cribnotes in the new netflix series) BUT he doesn't want to focus just on the magic side he wants other types of heroes too... 1 player (me) thinks the 2 best superhero movie's of all time are the 1979 superman and Captain America 2 Winter Soldier... both VERY different but knowing Vertigo is more adult theme I choose to make a winter soldier like character. another played doesn't really read or watch superhero stuff but did in the 80's and 90's and decided he wants to play a convoluted time traveler who will be born in game and be his own grandfather mixing cable with shatter star... okay this team sounds OKAY so far with 'not' winter soldier and 'not' cable... but the 3rd doesn't understand the assignment. He thinks that comics are supposed to be fun and his favorite of the movies are the Guardians of the Galaxy... and he decides to make a human with no powers that is a comic relief sort and base him on peter quill (movies not comics)... now every time he does something (based on the movie he liked) everyone rolls there eyes and says it doesn't work...

player "I want to stop the bad guy for a round by challenging him to a dance off"
DM "no that's dumb... he blasts you"

Now this is a MAJOR disconnect from what the DM (and 2 out of 3 players) wanted and should have been handled in session 0. However, it only is so because it is so major.



now go back to slapping the queen... remember the player in the scenario (not my example) started by not knowing how to calm down the queen that was crying, but the DM pushed into trying something (aka describe your social interaction even if YOU the player would not have clue 1 how and your character was built around it)... so you went with something from a movie... but the movie was NOT the type of movie the DM wanted to use for the campaign, and it auto failed. This is the 'magic words' thing... and it just gets worse when talking social skills because if the player is not good at social things not only is it hard to describe BUT the game IS a social thing so they are already having trouble with it... That player did not read the DM or the room and under stand what was or was not going to fly... but that's just it the two inabilities overlap "I don't know how to calm a crying woman" and "I don't know what to say" both can be summed up as "I don't do well with speaking in social situations."
But that DM is punishing them when they wanted the escapism of imagining themselves as the confident cool charming person they know they are not in real life.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Good thing no one here plays like that then, yes?