• NOW LIVE! -- The Awfully Cheerful Engine on Kickstarter! An action comedy RPG inspired by cheerful tabletop games of the 80s! With a foreword by Sandy 'Ghostbusters' Petersen, and VTT support!
log in or register to remove this ad

 

D&D 4E I miss 4E

RigaMortus2

First Post
Well it seems that you missed the first sentence of my post about being hyperbolic.

Oh no, I didn't miss it. I just (a) don't know what the word means and (b) chose to ignore it so I could be argumentative. Hey, at least I'm being honest... :)

In that context, to rephrase my original post, what I am taking issue with is:

  1. The lack of new material along those lines for the period from mid-August to mid-March or mid-April, in favor of a re-packaged, re-formatted, re-releasing of what is, ah, essentially old material.
  2. The possibility that the "Era of the hardcover" is over, and that the direction for 4E going forward is Essentials.

I see your point, and I agree 100%


What I am not saying is "I hate Essentials and WotC for killing 4E and taking my stuff!" or "4E 4Evar!" I was happy when 3E came out, happy when 3.5E came out, happy when 4E came out, and probably happy when 5E comes out. I don't mind Essentials but I just hope that it is not the main direction going forward. Call me somewhat disappointed and mildly leery.

I didn't think that. I'm not entirely sold on essentials myself, and the non-hardcover look and feel of it is a turn off for me. Blah.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


drothgery

First Post
$20 book > $30 book.

That is all.

Maybe, but after Amazon gets through with it, you're looking at roughly $15 book vs. $20 book, and if it's going in my backpack of gaming stuff, hardcover > softcover. Of course, the new format is more easily translateable to a good eBook format, so if that goes anywhere, it's a major plus.
 

kalfalnal

Explorer
I run my game on a laptop and reference the compendium for rules most of the time. With electronic tools my hard copy books just sit there taking up space 95% of the time anyway.

Seems to me people frequently overstate the amount of useful material we've been getting out of the typical 4e hardcover book while simultaneously downplaying how much new material is in essentials. Or perhaps thats just the way it seems to me since I use the character builder and don't have much motivation to purchase the latest power source books.
 
Last edited:

Mercurius

Legend
You know, I sympathize with those whom Essentials doesn't appeal to... and yet, I find this statement completely bogus. The two Heroes books are just as much new content as Martial Power, Arcane Power, etc.

That's sort of my point. Those are the types of books I don't buy anyways, that I get through DDI updates. In some sense I would have the same complaint if WotC only came out with Power books over an eight-month span, without and fluff-oriented theme books, campaign settings, or core expansions.

I just don't see your claim as any more legitimate than a 4E player saying, "Man, I missed 4E during April, May, June and July, when WotC abandoned me as a customer, and only put out books like the Plane Above, Demonicon, and all this other DM content."

In the end, not every book will appeal to every customer. That's unavoidable. But the fact that the current content doesn't interest you doesn't mean that WotC has stopped producing material for 4E.

Yes, true. So why is this bogus? I admitted to hyperbole, so what's the problem? Even so, I think it is safe to say that we are amidst the slowest time for new 4E material in its shortish history. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is what it is.

Thats what they seem to be saying. I mean, its supposed to be an improvement, right? (I am curious if there will be any big changes to rituals or more ritual type utilities).

I dunno. From what I've gathered their just Essentializing the PHB stuff. So basically it looks like a revised version of part of the PHB.

So, shadowfell box set it is...actually, there are a few products that might fall into that, but it may be a while, as you note in the op.

I'm definitely getting that, plus Mordenkainen's, maybe Heroes of Shadow. I was planning on getting the Nentir Vale Gazetteer but am unsure if or when that is coming out. I am hoping that they are reformatting it to be a hardcover (better) or box set (best).

The Mordekainen Stuff book was supposed to be hardback, but an Australian actually pushed the digest only rumor today. And if there are cost savings it makes sense.

Ugh, too bad. But if they do what I'm suspecting they'll do--make hardcovers a deluxe format limited to core rulebooks and campaign settings--then that would make sense.

Though I would not be surprised if, in a few years time, they cycled back to hardbacks (and put all the player stuff in one!).

Yes, that's the thing. The nature of the industry is that they're going to have to constantly scramble for sales spikes, whether it is new editions, new formats, new product lines, etc. But what they know doesn't work is the endless churning out of the same type of thing, year after year.

Oh no, I didn't miss it. I just (a) don't know what the word means and (b) chose to ignore it so I could be argumentative. Hey, at least I'm being honest... :)

Ha! I appreciate that. Hyperbole means over-exaggeration, over-dramatic, etc.

Maybe, but after Amazon gets through with it, you're looking at roughly $15 book vs. $20 book, and if it's going in my backpack of gaming stuff, hardcover > softcover. Of course, the new format is more easily translateable to a good eBook format, so if that goes anywhere, it's a major plus.

Yes, good point. Again, I don't see why it has to be either/or, why we can't see a variety of formats. This is how I would do it:

Hardcovers - core rulebooks and expansions, major theme books
Box Sets - campaign settings, mega adventures, starter set(s)
Digest/softcovers books - rules references, crunch splats, setting expansions

Or something like that. They could still stick with 15ish book products a year, but 3-6 could be hardcover, 2-4 box sets, and 6-8 digests/softcovers.
 



Lord Xtheth

First Post
I kinda don't like the Digest format. I think it's good for the Rules Compendium, but not realy for the "core" essentials books. I'll wait and see what the Monster book looks like though, because a monster Digest would be awesome!
 

MrMyth

First Post
That's sort of my point. Those are the types of books I don't buy anyways, that I get through DDI updates. In some sense I would have the same complaint if WotC only came out with Power books over an eight-month span, without and fluff-oriented theme books, campaign settings, or core expansions.

And my point is that you seemed to be saying there was a problem with WotC's approach - that they had stopped producing content and had a massive shift in available content. But I don't think that's the case - they've just had a period where they didn't produce content you didn't want, and that is a very different thing.

Yes, true. So why is this bogus? I admitted to hyperbole, so what's the problem? Even so, I think it is safe to say that we are amidst the slowest time for new 4E material in its shortish history. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is what it is.

I'm not sure about that. One who only plays Divine characters might have considered some other stretch to be a more barren period. An FR player might have viewed the period after FR came out to no longer be of interest.

But let's take a look overall.
June 2008: PHB, DMG, MM come out.
July 2008: Nothing.
August 2008: FRCG.
September 2008: Adventurer's Vault, FRPG.
October 2008: Nothing.
November 2008: Draconomicon, Martial Power.
December 2008: Manual of the Planes.
January 2009: Open Grave.
February 2009: Dungeon Delve.

So, July 2008 through February 2009. A similar 8 month period. What do we have?

Player books: FRPG, Martial Power, Adventurer's Vault.
Flavor books: FRCG, Draconomicon, Manual of the Planes, Open Grave.
DM/Player Tools: Dungeon Delve.

As compared to:
Player books: HotFL, HotFK, HoS, HoL, Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium.
DM/Player Tools: DM's Kit, Monster Vault, Rules Compendium.

I'm seeing just as much content as we've had in the past. The only difference, again, is that it isn't content you are interested in. Fair enough. That's certainly something one can discuss.

And I'm guessing the heart of it is more about the lack of flavor heavy content and DM monster/location books than anything else. And it sounds like part of that is that they are trying to insert a bit more flavor into the books themselves, so I suppose we'll see how that goes.

I think it's perfectly fine to say you wish they had different products coming out. It's the claim that this is the slowest time for 4E content or that we're not seeing anything new - those are the claims I'm considering bogus. They aren't genuine descriptions of the situation, just your own perspective filtered through what products you personally desire.

I don't have any problems with you saying that you miss 4E products you like, or that you are a fan of hardcovers and flavor books and other things we aren't getting. But I'm less inclined to agree with general claims about this somehow being a universal problem or one that indicates any sort of potential issues for D&D as a whole.
 
Last edited:

Mercurius

Legend
MrMyth, you are comparing apples and oranges here. The two lists are made up of completely different material: the former is comprised of new material (for 4E, at least), while the latter is largely rehashments of previously published 4E material. Actually, of the second list, only two--Mordenkainen's and Heroes of Shadow are new material, and both don't come at the very end of the period.

To put it another way, from mid-August of 2010 to mid-March of 2011 when Heroes of Shadow comes out--a period of seven months--WotC is basically putting out nothing but Essentialized versions of material they've already published.

Yes, my preference is for fluff/flavor/theme books and core expansions, but that doesn't negate my point, nor does your post. The vast majority of what WotC is producing for D&D during this seven-month stretch is re-inventing the 4E wheel in Essentialized form. Where's the new stuff? Why can't they sprinkle it amidst the Essentials material?
 
Last edited:

Zaukrie

New Publisher
To somewhat agree with the OP, I miss:

Long dragon and dungeon articles that aren't crunch, that have story elements, and were not all chaos scar adventures made with dungeon tiles.

Books like Draconomicon, Demonicon, Underdark.

Adventures.
 

Tequila Sunrise

Adventurer
Gotta say M, I'm totally ignoring Essentials, but I'm quite happy to have time to 'catch up' with the books I care about. It's like the opportunity ya get to complete your collection between edition changes, except there's no new edition to start the vicious consumer cycle again! Well, no new edition I care to own.

I see your point, and it's a good one, but I'm just not a spender. (Because I'm a dirty progressive socialist un-American middle class liberal.)
 

MrMyth

First Post
MrMyth, you are comparing apples and oranges here. The two lists are made up of completely different material: the former is comprised of new material (for 4E, at least), while the latter is largely rehashments of previously published 4E material. Actually, of the second list, only two--Mordenkainen's and Heroes of Shadow are new material, and both don't come at the very end of the period.

Except that we've previously seen plenty of other products along those same lines. Heroes of the Fallen Lands and Forgotten Kingdoms isn't any worse than Martial Power and Divine Power.

We have new options for existing players, in those books - plus Mordenkainen's, plus Heroes of Shadow. We might have some new monsters - or at least new approaches with monsters - in the Monster Vault.

I'm guessing that WotC feels those will provide some content to many existing players while still allowing them to have this period focus on this new line-up. Now, that doesn't seem to be the case in your book (and, honestly, is pretty close to the case for me.) But sometimes WotC can't cater to everyone. I don't think that they are letting anyone down here, with these specific six months, any more than they are letting down Eberron players because they don't have a continual line-up of Eberron setting books.

In short, "WotC not pleasing everyone" isn't a new thing, and I don't see any abrupt change in their behavior here. If this isn't a release schedule you are a fan of, that's one thing. But there seems a level of specific bias here to declare this material simply a rehashing of old content, when it is not far off from Martial Power and Divine Power and similar books - or, even more, to specifically ignore something like Heroes of Shadow simply because it is in paperback format.
 

Mercurius

Legend
Except that we've previously seen plenty of other products along those same lines. Heroes of the Fallen Lands and Forgotten Kingdoms isn't any worse than Martial Power and Divine Power.

How so? The Power books (none of which I own, btw) focus on new material, new options for characters. But the Heroes books are Essentialized versions of previously released classes. Sure, there are new options, especially in the form of new builds, but the main purpose of these books--according to what WotC has said--is to bring in new players by providing an easier entry point. In other words, the Essentials stuff is a couple steps removed from the Power books in terms of new material.

It is really a matter of degree in terms of "newness" of a book: From entirely new material on one end of the spectrum to a reprinting of the same book in different format with little to no adjustments. The bottom line for me is that the Essentials line, by and large, is too far into the latter end of the spectrum to make it worth my while, and it is mildly disappointing in that I like getting a new D&D book once or twice a month.

We have new options for existing players, in those books - plus Mordenkainen's, plus Heroes of Shadow. We might have some new monsters - or at least new approaches with monsters - in the Monster Vault.

Right. But "new approaches with monsters" is not exactly the same thing as new monsters, is it? The Monster Vault, btw, is still on my "maybe to buy" list. I'm going to wait and see what people say before canceling my pre-order (which I just did for HotFK and The DM's Kit).

I'm guessing that WotC feels those will provide some content to many existing players while still allowing them to have this period focus on this new line-up. Now, that doesn't seem to be the case in your book (and, honestly, is pretty close to the case for me.) But sometimes WotC can't cater to everyone. I don't think that they are letting anyone down here, with these specific six months, any more than they are letting down Eberron players because they don't have a continual line-up of Eberron setting books.

There is a big difference between not offering new material to a very specific and relatively small sub-section of the D&D populace and not providing new material for anyone who doesn't want a new entry point into the game.

Furthermore, it is seven months, not six--but that's a minor quibble ;).

In short, "WotC not pleasing everyone" isn't a new thing, and I don't see any abrupt change in their behavior here. If this isn't a release schedule you are a fan of, that's one thing. But there seems a level of specific bias here to declare this material simply a rehashing of old content, when it is not far off from Martial Power and Divine Power and similar books - or, even more, to specifically ignore something like Heroes of Shadow simply because it is in paperback format.

I have not ignored Heroes of Shadow; in fact, I have used it as one of the bookends of the seven month dry spell--from Psionic Power and the Dark Sun books in August to Heroes of Shadow in March. The eight month period is between hardcovers, with Mordenkainen's in April.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "level of specific bias." If I said that Essentials was "simply a rehashing of old content" I should have said "mainly," which is, I think, what I did say--and what I mean. Even WotC has said as much. And yes, I recognize that there is some new material, but it is not a lot and it is mixed in with a lot of revised/reformatted/rehashed versions of old material. This means that someone such as myself, who wants the new material but not the old, has to either buy hundreds of dollars of new books or pay for a month or two of DDI to get updates (if and when they come out).

But it isn't that big of a deal, really. I can spend my RPG budget elsewhere and flesh out other aspects of my collection. Now if only I can find an affordable copy of Stars Wars Saga Edition...
 

Derulbaskul

Explorer
(snip) Long dragon and dungeon articles that aren't crunch, that have story elements, and were not all chaos scar adventures made with dungeon tiles.

Books like Draconomicon, Demonicon, Underdark.

Adventures.

Much the same as you, I miss Dungeon adventures that are more than just three encounters and some tiles. More precisely, I miss the Dungeon adventures that appeared under Paizo's excellent stewardship in the 3.5E years. Three delves a month just doesn't cut it.

I also miss books that are more than just a 4.5E updating of some classes. I want my Underdark et al. More precisely, I want a Feywild-focussed book and Far Realms-focussed book, in that order.

Adventures. Oh how I wish that WotC were able to publish good adventures again. Slaying Stone and Stonefang Pass were both good so, now that they're back on track with adventures (although the Dark Sun one sucked: Bruce Cordell really has lost his mojo) I would like to see more.
 


MrMyth

First Post
How so? The Power books (none of which I own, btw) focus on new material, new options for characters. But the Heroes books are Essentialized versions of previously released classes. Sure, there are new options, especially in the form of new builds, but the main purpose of these books--according to what WotC has said--is to bring in new players by providing an easier entry point. In other words, the Essentials stuff is a couple steps removed from the Power books in terms of new material.

Yeah, that is the primary purpose. But to existing players, they offer new builds for various classes.

You've got one of two ways to look at it. Either these new builds are the equivalent of the new builds offered in Martial Power, or they are the equivalent of new classes as found in PHB2, etc.

Either way, that is absolutely new content.

Heroes of Legend? It won't be. That is the book that, as I understand it, is primarily reprinting new material. And the other Heroes books have a bit of that with reprinted feats and items, yes.

But each one presents a number of new builds or classes (depending on how you want to look at it), and I just can't see any reasonable interpretation of that content which involves dismissing it as simply reprinting of existing content.

Right. But "new approaches with monsters" is not exactly the same thing as new monsters, is it? The Monster Vault, btw, is still on my "maybe to buy" list. I'm going to wait and see what people say before canceling my pre-order (which I just did for HotFK and The DM's Kit).

Yeah, not sure yet on Monster Vault. It had originally sounded like we'd be seeing new versions of existing monsters so that we could have "MM3 math" variants of classic monsters that supplement prior material without replacing it. Then they chose a terrible preview that had boring carrion crawlers nearly identical to the previous ones. So... until we know more, hard to say anything for sure. I'm hoping the carrion crawlers were a fluke and they'll hold to what was earlier promised about the product.

There is a big difference between not offering new material to a very specific and relatively small sub-section of the D&D populace and not providing new material for anyone who doesn't want a new entry point into the game.

I don't know about that. I know players who pretty much just stick to the 'core classes'. I see them just as likely to bemoan a dry spell between Martial Power 2 and Heroes of the Fallen Lands - they don't need PHB3, Psionic stuff, DM content or Dark Sun. Are they as large a group as those who are not interested in Essentials? Certainly not... but I think there are a lot of similar groups out there.

In this case, yes, WotC is deciding to have a period focusing on new players. They have still tried to include content in that period that will appeal to existing players, and I think many will still pick up such content. I could be wrong - your feelings on this might be widespread and vast, and WotC will take a huge hit by doing so. But... I've got a suspicion that isn't the case.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "level of specific bias." If I said that Essentials was "simply a rehashing of old content" I should have said "mainly," which is, I think, what I did say--and what I mean. Even WotC has said as much. And yes, I recognize that there is some new material, but it is not a lot and it is mixed in with a lot of revised/reformatted/rehashed versions of old material. This means that someone such as myself, who wants the new material but not the old, has to either buy hundreds of dollars of new books or pay for a month or two of DDI to get updates (if and when they come out).

Hundreds of dollars? $40 for Heroes of the Fallen Lands and Forgotten Kingdoms. Maybe also the Monster Vault - those are the products that have some amount of new content along some amount of old content. And then Heroes of Shadow, which should be entirely new content.

And let's look at that actual price tag. Heroes of the Fallen Lands offers 4 classes that feature 5 new builds, and some new feats. Alongside it is some older feats and items. It is certainly less content than one might find in Martial Power. On the other hand... it's 2/3 the cost.

If you don't want the content, that is fine. But that is a different thing than that content not being there.
 

fanboy2000

First Post
How so? The Power books (none of which I own, btw) focus on new material, new options for characters. But the Heroes books are Essentialized versions of previously released classes.
The Power books are one sidebar per class away from being PHBs. They seem purposefully designed so that people can play using only powers and feats from their chosen Power book.

For example the very first Power book, Martial Power, included a new class build for the Ranger, the Beastmaster. If it has included the sidebar that tells the player the classes hp, proficiencies, defense bonuses, etc... one could pick up pick-up the Martial Power book and only use that book to create a PC. If you wanted to you could call the Beastmaster Ranger a "Powerized" version of a previously released class.

But no one does.
 

Mercurius

Legend
But each one presents a number of new builds or classes (depending on how you want to look at it), and I just can't see any reasonable interpretation of that content which involves dismissing it as simply reprinting of existing content.

But I'm not saying that it is simply reprinting old material - and I already corrected you on that. I am saying that it is mainly reformatting, repackaging, and rehashing old material (which is also different from "reprinting"). There is a big difference between simply, which means only, and mainly, which means "for the most part, but not entirely."

Regardless of to what degree Essentials actually provides new material, from what I've seen so far it is not enough for me to buy everything, and it is also not enough for me to not feel disappointed in WotC's output over the 7-8 month period in question because not only is there a relatively small amount of actually new material, but it is included in reformatting of old material, and it is almost entirely new "crunch" with little to no new "fluff."

To put it another way, let's say that 4E books pre-Essentials have been of three basic kinds:

1) Core books and their expansions (PHB 1-3, DMG 1-2, MM 1-3)
2) Crunch-centered supplements (The Power books; Player's Guides)
3) Fluff-centered supplments (Campaign settings and theme books, e.g. Demonomicon, planar books, etc)

I buy all of 1 and 3 and almost none of 2 but instead get occasional DDI updates. During the 7-8 month period in question, there are no books in the 3rd category, with lots of books that re-format the 1st and offer bits of the 2nd. So the new material that is being offered is A) Integrated with a lot of old material that I already have, and B) Of the crunch-centric variety that is of less interest to me and that I can get through DDI.

Again, I'm not saying that this is "wrong" or that WotC is evil for not providing me with what I want, but it is a pretty significant gap in their publication schedule with a rather narrow variety of books being presented.

In this case, yes, WotC is deciding to have a period focusing on new players. They have still tried to include content in that period that will appeal to existing players, and I think many will still pick up such content. I could be wrong - your feelings on this might be widespread and vast, and WotC will take a huge hit by doing so. But... I've got a suspicion that isn't the case.

I think my feelings are in the minority, although maybe a significantly sized minority. To be honest I am surprised at how many people seem to be taking to Essentials whole-heartedly.



Hundreds of dollars? $40 for Heroes of the Fallen Lands and Forgotten Kingdoms. Maybe also the Monster Vault - those are the products that have some amount of new content along some amount of old content. And then Heroes of Shadow, which should be entirely new content.

And let's look at that actual price tag. Heroes of the Fallen Lands offers 4 classes that feature 5 new builds, and some new feats. Alongside it is some older feats and items. It is certainly less content than one might find in Martial Power. On the other hand... it's 2/3 the cost.

If you don't want the content, that is fine. But that is a different thing than that content not being there.

Again, I'm not saying that new content is not there but that A) it is mixed in with a lot (more, really) old content that I'm not interested in re-purchasing, and B) it is of a narrow variety without any "fluff-centered" products.

As for the price, WotC has effectively split one $35 hardcover (PHB) into three $20 softcovers (the two Heroes books and the Rules Compendium). That's $60 to just get the Essentialized versions of the material in the PHB, $80 if you include the Class Compendium.

At this point the only Essentials product that I feel is worth my money is the Rules Compendium, because it is a nice table reference. I may also pick up the Monster Vault and, despite my misgivings with the format and my wish for a revised PHB, I am curious about the Class Compendium. But for me regular purchasing of WotC D&D books won't start up again until Heroes of Shadow.
 

Mercurius

Legend
But each one presents a number of new builds or classes (depending on how you want to look at it), and I just can't see any reasonable interpretation of that content which involves dismissing it as simply reprinting of existing content.

But I'm not saying that it is simply reprinting old material - and I already corrected you on that. I am saying that it is mainly reformatting, repackaging, and rehashing old material (which is also different from "reprinting"). There is a big difference between simply, which means only, and mainly, which means "for the most part, but not entirely."

Regardless of to what degree Essentials actually provides new material, from what I've seen so far it is not enough for me to buy everything, and it is also not enough for me to not feel disappointed in WotC's output over the 7-8 month period in question because not only is there a relatively small amount of actually new material, but it is included in reformatting of old material, and it is almost entirely new "crunch" with little to no new "fluff."

To put it another way, let's say that 4E books pre-Essentials have been of three basic kinds:

1) Core books and their expansions (PHB 1-3, DMG 1-2, MM 1-3)
2) Crunch-centered supplements (The Power books; Player's Guides)
3) Fluff-centered supplments (Campaign settings and theme books, e.g. Demonomicon, planar books, etc)

I buy all of 1 and 3 and almost none of 2 but instead get occasional DDI updates. During the 7-8 month period in question, there are no books in the 3rd category, with lots of books that re-format the 1st and offer bits of the 2nd. So the new material that is being offered is A) Integrated with a lot of old material that I already have, and B) Of the crunch-centric variety that is of less interest to me and that I can get through DDI.

Again, I'm not saying that this is "wrong" or that WotC is evil for not providing me with what I want, but it is a pretty significant gap in their publication schedule with a rather narrow variety of books being presented.

In this case, yes, WotC is deciding to have a period focusing on new players. They have still tried to include content in that period that will appeal to existing players, and I think many will still pick up such content. I could be wrong - your feelings on this might be widespread and vast, and WotC will take a huge hit by doing so. But... I've got a suspicion that isn't the case.

I think my feelings are in the minority, although maybe a significantly sized minority. To be honest I am surprised at how many people seem to be taking to Essentials whole-heartedly.



Hundreds of dollars? $40 for Heroes of the Fallen Lands and Forgotten Kingdoms. Maybe also the Monster Vault - those are the products that have some amount of new content along some amount of old content. And then Heroes of Shadow, which should be entirely new content.

And let's look at that actual price tag. Heroes of the Fallen Lands offers 4 classes that feature 5 new builds, and some new feats. Alongside it is some older feats and items. It is certainly less content than one might find in Martial Power. On the other hand... it's 2/3 the cost.

If you don't want the content, that is fine. But that is a different thing than that content not being there.

Again, I'm not saying that new content is not there but that A) it is mixed in with a lot (more, really) old content that I'm not interested in re-purchasing, and B) it is of a narrow variety without any "fluff-centered" products.

As for the price, WotC has effectively split one $35 hardcover (PHB) into three $20 softcovers (the two Heroes books and the Rules Compendium). That's $60 to just get the Essentialized versions of the material in the PHB, $80 if you include the Class Compendium.

At this point the only Essentials product that I feel is worth my money is the Rules Compendium, because it is a nice table reference. I may also pick up the Monster Vault and, despite my misgivings with the format and my wish for a revised PHB, I am curious about the Class Compendium. But for me regular purchasing of WotC D&D books won't start up again until Heroes of Shadow.
 

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top