I miss soft targets

[blargney the second]

I was thinking about 4e monsters tonight and I just realized that I miss the truly soft targets from 3e. Bags and bags of hit points, single digit ACs. They aren't the kind of monster that you always want to fight, but they do serve as the occasional interesting diversion.
-blarg

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

So you want lots of hit points but low AC? Ever considered lower level Elites? Brutes might also work, but they will have trouble hitting...

 

[FireLance]

In other words, the occasional grind is okay?

 

[blargney the second]

Remember this Design & Development article? Somewhere in the transition to 4e, those really soft targets got lost in the shuffle. Sure, brutes have slightly worse defenses and slightly more hps, but that's not in nearly the same ballpark as 3e's oozes.
-blarg

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think Brutes definitely are supposed to full the "soft target" category, but they are not on the Ooze level, either, I agree.

I think there can be a point where you might want to modify a monster and ignore the monster role guidelines. A Brute with, say 20 % extra hit points but with 2 points less of AC and maybe other defenses.

Of course, these monsters will probably not be found in your MM 1 or MM 2. (Or are they there?)

 

[Runestar]

Do you think we will ever see foes who are essentially "auto-hit" in that PCs will probably miss them only on a natural 1, but have a ton of hp, and grow more dangerous as their hp dwindles? So there is no strategy, PCs just go nova and it is a race to see which side can deal more damage first.

I am thinking something along the line of MM5's Dalmosh, or the terratamorph. Would such a foe be viable in 4e?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I also love soft targets. Not to use the majority of the time, but a sizable portion, to balance out my love of classed NPCs, which tend to have good to godly AC. Right now, I have one player who rolls poorly all the time, so it's nice to see him light up when he rolls a three, says sadly, "turn," and then I get to ask him, "No, really. What's the total? 14? You Hit!"

I certainly have a lot of bad luck when playing (oddly, I seem to roll above average when DM, though...), so I always love to see things with poor AC or an easily targetable save.

 

[blargney the second]

I'm sure it could be made fun and viable. They were before!

To a lesser degree, I kind of miss the really hard targets as well. Again, soldiers have slightly better defenses, but they've also got bags of hit points. I miss the guys that had super high defenses, but once you cracked the nut, they had a soft interior.

I suppose I'm saying that it would be interesting to see monsters that have hit points and AC inversely proportional to each other and decoupled from the level train.
-blarg

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I'm sure it could be made fun and viable. They were before!

To a lesser degree, I kind of miss the really hard targets as well. Again, soldiers have slightly better defenses, but they've also got bags of hit points. I miss the guys that had super high defenses, but once you cracked the nut, they had a soft interior.

I suppose I'm saying that it would be interesting to see monsters that have hit points and AC inversely proportional to each other and decoupled from the level train.
-blarg

I see the need for some kind of template.

Soft Target: Maybe +50 % hit points, -4 to two defenses, -2 to two others.
Hard Target: Maybe -50 % hit points, +4 to two defenses, +2 to two others.

Though I think the "tough to crack, chewy inside" or something like that needs something different for feeling right.
Tough to Crack, Chewy Inside: +3 to all defenses, -25 % hit points, if bloodied, loses defense bonus.
Don't some Angels have abilities like that?

 

[drothgery]

In other words, the occasional grind is okay?

Eh. Once you figured out you were facing a soft target, anyone who could starts power attacking for all they're worth, and various other tactics to do more damage at the expense of a worse chance to hit come into play.

Besides, warrior types in 3.5 could do insane amounts of damage if all their iterative attacks hit.