I miss the old D&D of the 00's

[Dirigible]

"Soul" is not something a game system has. It is something the players bring to the game.

In tiny black glass vials engraved with red sigils...

 

[Algolei]

You decrepit old 3.xE lovers make me laugh! You'll have to evolve to 7E sooner or later, why put it off? Throw away those ridiculous old books and upgrade now!

 

[shilsen]

You decrepit old 3.xE lovers make me laugh! You'll have to evolve to 7E sooner or later, why put it off? Throw away those ridiculous old books and upgrade now!

That's 7.73e on the holodeck, you luddite!

 

[Storm Raven]

I mean, you don't see much in the way of nostalgia for Dragonquest -- a very slick and well-done game in its time.

Slick? I'd call the mess that was the Dragonquest rules set a lot of things, but "slick" isn't one of them. The same goes for "well-done".

 

[Dark Jezter]

"Soul" is not something a game system has. It is something the players bring to the game.

Great line, and very true.

 

[diaglo]

You decrepit old 3.xE lovers make me laugh! You'll have to evolve to 7E sooner or later, why put it off? Throw away those ridiculous old books and upgrade now!

[wheeze]

my hat of 7E knows no litmus.

[/wheeze]

 

[Tyler Do'Urden]

The 3.x versions of the game lack the quirks, idiosyncratic writing styles, and aesthetic/stylistic charms of 1st edition AD&D or Basic/Expert D&D. Hence 3.x will never generate the same amount of nostalgia as the early versions of D&D do (yes, there will be some nostalgia, but just not very much of it in comparison to O/AD&D).

I mean, you don't see much in the way of nostalgia for Dragonquest -- a very slick and well-done game in its time. The same goes, to a lesser extent, for 2nd edition AD&D. The reason: Dragonquest and 2nd edition AD&D lacked the charm and character of the 1st edition AD&D or basic/expert D&D rules. (Yes, there are many 2nd editions fans out there, but their numbers are dwarfed by those who have nostalgic feelings for 1st edition AD&D or basic/expert D&D.)

I'm going to disagree with you here, Akrasia (not about Dragonquest, since I'm not familiar with the game, but about 2nd edition).

2nd Edition AD&D was the second roleplaying game I ever ran or played a serious campaign in, back in '97, when I was a sophomore in high school. I remember borrowing the books from a friend who wanted me to DM- he lent me the three core books, Player's Option: High Level Campaigns, and the Complete Fighter's Handbook. I remember cracking open those books, which smelled of incense and leather from being stored in my friend's briefcase. I remember the illustrations, the fonts, the writing- it didn't feel slick or videogamy, it seemed like what a role playing game should be.

I remember running my first adventure, watching the party battle drow knights riding nightmares- at first level. And winning.

I remember playing my first planescape campaign. My drow fighter/necromancer, Telyuran Settenthis, a member of the fated, and how he traveled the planes with a Chitine, a Tiefling, and a human Paladin, fighting tanar'ri and myconids and messing in the affairs of evil wizards. Never mind the fact that my DM was horrible- the game was still fun.

I remember getting my hands on Player's Option: Spells and Magic and Player's Option: Skills and Powers. And who can forget the Complete Paladin, Complete Bard, or Complete Book of Elves? (though I know there are plenty who would like to forget Mein Alf , I was a fan. Alongside the Berserker-Paladins with 18/98 Strength and the 2nd edition Psions, a Bladesinger or Windrider was positively tame by comparison) Many of the modules that I ran were a blast- Feast of Goblyns, Return to the Tomb of Horrors, The Deva Spark, Hellbound: The Blood War... despite the "railroading" of some of them, we had a great time. I remember the first time I cracked open the copy of the Taladas boxed set that I picked up down at the used book store... oh, the mysteries...

2nd edition didn't strike me as slick... 3e does, but hey, it happens. I've hated the "look and feel" and the "dungeonpunk" art of 3e ever since it came out, but the mechanics of the game work sooo much better. If I could just get the "feel" of 2nd edition back again, with the rules of 3e...

Yet, at the same time, 3e will generate lots of nostalgia, in it's time. For many a high school student, they'll be initiated into the mysteries the same way I was- a friend will pull out the books one day, and that will be that. Many a college student will be invited to a game by a friend, and quickly grow hooked. You never forget your first.

 

[Henry]

You never forget your first.

That's the core of the whole matter, isn't it? First loves, first times, first cars, first games you ever played...

 

[Samothdm]

That's the core of the whole matter, isn't it? First loves, first times, first cars, first games you ever played...

Exactly.

 

[rogueattorney]

That's the core of the whole matter, isn't it? First loves, first times, first cars, first games you ever played...

fah! My first 45 was Juke Box Hero by Foreigner. I don't give Foreigner a second thought any more. Why? Because they aren't a very good band. I still listen to the Beatles, though. Why? Because they're a good band.

My first car was an '85 Renault Encore. It went from zero to 60... eventually. I don't miss it. My second car was a '71 Opel GT. That little thing could scoot! I'd take it back in an instant if it still ran.

Do I need to go on? Nostalgia might play a role, but if that first experience isn't a positive experience, then you aren't going to be nostalgic are you? No one waxes poetically about their first trip to the dentist.

I've played literally hundreds of games of various types and dozens of RPG's. I keep coming back to 1e and B/X D&D. Why? Because they're good games. That's something a lot of 3e'ers have trouble coming to grips with. So let me repeat it: D&D prior to 3e was a good game.

You might like the changes made to 3e. That's fine. Some people don't. So they continue to play the game they like. That's cool too. Contrary to the opinion of a certain gaming company in Seattle, life would be pretty boring if we were all playing the same game.

R.A.