I need a new computer

[drothgery]

I just went to dell and gateway and I'm a bit irritated. I'll freely admit ignorance in computers, but lets say I want a good graphic card well I try to add it to computer X, um not an option. lets see do they have good graphic cards well yes, but its only an option on there really snazzy and expensive computers. Why can't I get a cheaper computer but slap on a good graphics card?

Dell's low-end line (well, lines right now, but that's because they're transitioning from one model to another) and their small form-factor boxes have usually featured non-upgradeable integrated graphics. This is pretty common for major vendors.

It is kind of odd that they're offering only a Radeon x300SE (roughly equivalent to a de-tuned Radeon 9600) as an option on the 4700 line, and just adding a GeForce 6800 and GeForce 6800 GT on the 8400 line. I've got to suspect availability issues with PCI Express graphics cards on this one; Dell normally gives you more options, and did with my box this spring (an 8300 series). It's probably worth noting that the price delta between a 4700 and an identically configured 8400 is pretty close to zero.

 

[Aeolius]

To play World of Warcraft , Apple recommends the following:

Mac OS X version 10.3.5
933MHz PowerPC G4 processor or higher
512MB of RAM (DDR RAM recommended)
32MB video card (ATI or NVIDIA)
4GB of hard disk space
56K or faster modem with an Internet connection

Which you can get with their recommended game hardware for casual gamers (17-inch iMac G5: 1.6GHz PowerPC G5, 512MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra graphics card, 80GB hard drive), intermediate gamers (20-inch iMac G5: 1.8GHz PowerPC G5, 1GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra, 80GB hard drive), or ultimate gamers (Power Mac G5: Dual 2.5GHz PowerPC G5, 8GB RAM, AGP 8X NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL, SDRAM , 160GB hard drive)

 

[Krieg]

*cough* PCI-Express and PCI-X are two different things. *cough*

Oops, I have a bad habit of mentally blocking out dead end technology.

 

[Mr. Kaze]

I want a new computer, something good enough to run say WoW at the least. Any suggestions on what to get, where to go. I'm thinking of just getting a dell since I've had no problems with my last computer but I don't know for sure.

For WoW, I've got a Pentium 4 2.6 (HT), i865 chipset, 512mb of ram, and a GeForce 4 Ti 4400. Runs well enough at 1280x1024.

My wife has a Dell from last year. All of the moving parts in it are wearing out and making me unhappy. It started out whisper quiet; it's not quiet anymore.

If you're thinking that you may want to upgrade this computer at all, any time in the future, get a PCI-express enabled motherboard. If you know you won't care, then you may be able to get older stuff slightly cheaper. If I were making the choice, I'd get PCI-E.

Beware of poorly marketed video cards. A Radeon x700, x800 or 9800 is good. A GeForce 6600 or 6800 are good. (I can't really speak to the 5xxx line.) Beware of the Radeon 9200, x300 and the GeForce 5200. They have similar conventions to quality cards, but in reality, they suck.

::Kaze (is looking at either switching to a Home Theater setup (32" LCD TV with dual digital inputs -- WoW supports 1280x768 resolution!) or a laptop (Powerbook G4 with the ATI 9700, 128MB of RAM) to get him out of the office and into other parts of the house while playing...)

 

[drothgery]

Beware of poorly marketed video cards. A Radeon x700, x800 or 9800 is good. A GeForce 6600 or 6800 are good. (I can't really speak to the 5xxx line.) Beware of the Radeon 9200, x300 and the GeForce 5200. They have similar conventions to quality cards, but in reality, they suck.

The Radeon x300 isn't a Radeon 9000/9100/9200 derivative; it's a Radeon 9600 derivative, and the cheapest PCI-Express video card out there. I wouldn't buy one, but if you're in the market for a cheap PCI-Express card (because Intel's integrated graphics aren't good enough, but you have no money), it's not a bad choice.

 

[Rackhir]

If you feel at all competent I would go the build your own route. That way you get to pick exactly what you want. I've never found the tech support for consumer products from the big companies like Dell to be much help. So you are probably better off providing your own tech support or leaning on friends/This Forum.

I would strongly recomend considering one of the AMD chips. They are supposed to be tops for gaming and I've been very impressed with the performance of our new Opteron system. The AMD FX-55/3/1 chips are essentially a slightly modified opteron Chip.

One thing to look out for in the AMD mother boards though is make sure that it does not required Registered ECC ram. They are MUCH more expensive and aren't as fast as the non registered DIMMs.

The AMD processors have a direct link to memory built into the processor, so they can access ram much faster than the Intel chips which have to go over the system bus that is sharing bandwidth with a whole host of other system functions. So it's important to get the Lowest Latency memory you can. That's often refered to as the CAS rating and usually looks something like this 2-3-2-6, for good memory. The lower those four numbers are the better.

New FX (Socket 939) motherboards are just coming out based on the nVidia Nforce4 Chipset. The high end models will let you use two PCIe graphics cards in what's called an SLI arrangement. You do have to use the same kind of graphics cards, but you don't have to get them at the same time. So you can get one now and then in a year or so once the price has dropped, pick up a second for a speed boost.

You really do want to go with a MB that has PCIe slots, since the graphics cards are moving quite rapidly to that type of slot.

RE: Your cards and high end machines question. Part of it is simply a desire to make more money and people who are buying the higher end graphics cards are usually looking at higher end system. Second, There are several bottlenecks in a system that can affect your performance.

First of course is the processor. There's little point in having the ultimate graphics card if the processor can't process enough data to keep it occupied. So some games are Processor bound, meaning that the performance ramp flattens out at some point depending on the processor and a better graphics card will do little to improve things.

Second you have the graphics card. In some games it is the limiting factor and a faster processor doesn't help because it can only texture and light so many polygons a second. Video Card memory is only rarely a limiting factor. Generally only with very new games and very old cards will the memory on the card be inadiquate. Doom3 is an exception, because the it has texture maps of such size that it can use 512mb in ram on the card to store them all for maximum performance. That said, 128mb on a card should be sufficient for the forseeable future.

Ram and HD performance are two lesser factors in limiting the performance of your computer. Though inadiquate memory will kill your performance, having far more ram than needed generally won't produce any speed increase. HD performance does enter in to things like load times, but it's not critical. However it does affect the everyday performance for using the computer for practically everything else. So I would strongly recomend getting two smaller drives and configuring them in a RAID 0 set up. Most motherboards support various RAID configurations and two drives are almost always faster than a single larger drive

 

[Shard O'Glase]

gah I feel like my dad. At least I understand conceptually what you all are talking about but all these video card numbers and what's best, and things like pci-express is confusing to me. The computer I use is from the dark ages back when I first went onto graduate school at the time it had the best graphic card I could get through dell a whole 8mb, I've been relegated to console gaming for way too long.(side note from experience never let your roomate use your computer on the internet unless you really know him, its been about 5 years and my computer still feels dirty)

So basically to sum up as long as its a pentirum 4 level its good in that area.
Ram I should get bare min of 512 but shoot for 1 meg.
Hard drive? :is 40 gig good enough to me it sounds huge but everything takes up more space now so I don't know. Hard drives are cheap so maybe I should go for more.
Graphics card: is this good enough ATI "All in Wonder" 128MB DDR Video Card with with RADEON 9600 XT 3D Chip, do I go for um this ATI X700 Pro 256MB GDDR3 PCI-Express Video Card or Leadtek FX 6800GT 256MB Video Card with nVidia's GeForce 6800 GT Chip. All 3 of which seem to cost 200$ on outpost.com Basically I was thinking I'd need the 256MB level because I remember how quickly my 8mb became worthless. And also what more do I have to look at than its MB processing power. Is there really a substantial difference between ATI stuff and GeForce based stuff. Will only one type work on certain configurations?
And why does this ATI 256MB DDR Video Card with with RADEON X800 PRO 3D Chip cost 200$ more what does the RADEON x800 pro 3d add over the other 256mb chip from ATI, and make the 128 MB one cost the same as the non radeon 256MB to make it 200$ more expensive and how important is that?

Monitors:I got one already it works fine sure I'd like a sleek and space friendly flat screen but I'm not made of money, so I'll probably remove the monitor from the purcahse.
Sound: I'd like decent sound but this isn't a big point to me any suggestions.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

man I'm a slow poster rackhir's post wasn't there when I stareted and there's a 13 minute gap in out posts.

 

[Mr. Kaze]

Hard drive? :is 40 gig good enough to me it sounds huge but everything takes up more space now so I don't know. Hard drives are cheap so maybe I should go for more.

40GB is fine unless your digitizing oodles of media or never uninstalling anything. I think I've got a 40 in my machine and a 60 in my wife's machine -- never run into space limitations on either of 'em.

Graphics card: is this good enough ATI "All in Wonder" 128MB DDR Video Card with with RADEON 9600 XT 3D Chip, do I go for um this ATI X700 Pro 256MB GDDR3 PCI-Express Video Card or Leadtek FX 6800GT 256MB Video Card with nVidia's GeForce 6800 GT Chip. All 3 of which seem to cost 200$ on outpost.com ... Is there really a substantial difference between ATI stuff and GeForce based stuff. Will only one type work on certain configurations?

I wouldn't go for the 9600 AIW. It's a decent card with lots of nifty toys, but you've not indicated a desire for nifty toys -- thus it's better to get a rather more modern card (X700 or GF6800) that has more room to grow. As of late, the GeForce cards have more raw horsepower, but aren't so good at making images really pretty. When you turn all of the "make the image look pretty" features on, ATI does better. So if you want insanely high frame rates, go with NVidia. If you want a decent framerate that looks really good, go with ATI. I wouldn't spend more than $250 on a video card (especially if you're not upgrading your monitor) as it'll only make you hate yourself when the price drops by $150 within two months. I can't say that 256MB of RAM on a video card is a bad thing -- textures (and WoW is full of 'em) chew that up pretty fast.

Sound: I'd like decent sound but this isn't a big point to me any suggestions.

Most computers come with decent sound on the motherboard these days. And WoW isn't big into needing insanely great sound.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I wouldn't spend more than $250 on a video card (especially if you're not upgrading your monitor) as it'll only make you hate yourself when the price drops by $150 within two months.

As for the monitor point do I need a better one its a heck of a lot clearer than my tvm, dvds run on it with clear images, do graphics require more monitor power than dvds do? If I need it I'll pay the money but other than size how have monitors improved over the last 7-8 years. And if I'm not too concenred with the space it takes up what do I look for in a good monitor.