I need feedback from experienced DM's

[Creamsteak]

I'll just note once again that Ormaxus should be allowed to craft the item as long as time and resources allow it. There are demigods with intelligences around 23 (hell hercules, the iconic idiot of the gods, has an intelligence of 20), but also note that Imhotep (who has 4 less divine ranks than hercules) has an awesome 43 intelligence. 23 or 25 for that matter is absolutely nothing compared to a normal wizard-god. Now yes, his character is smarter than the average barbarian god, and maybe some fighter gods, but point for point he is only 50% of what a demigod of sorcerers should have.

 

[Darkness]

Support BADA
(Bothered About Dragongirl's Aim)

?

 

[Wycen Adamantite]

Everyone is asking the DM but nobody has asked the players: with a body count that high, why are you still playing?

 

[S'mon]

Orm's detailed 'cowardly' behaviour so far sounds like what counts as standard good tactics for a Wizard PC in most tough campaigns - and this is certainly a tough campaign! Still, it also sounds as if the rest of the players are a bit reckless with their PCs' lives, maybe that's why they don't mind losing so many of them. My group has learned to raid dungeons like a commando team, and they're getting quite good at it - I'm proud to say no deaths for several months (we play 1/week)!

 

[sword-dancer]

Re: Meatgrinder, etc.

Remember that this thread was started by Ormraxes, so that he could whine a little about not being able to get everything the way he wants it in my game, and using all you people out there to try to strengthen his own arguments.

I don't intend to bash Ormraxes (he is still a good friend), but I should also like to mention that he has not suffered a single character death during RttToEE, and that's mainly due to him being extremely cautious and a coward, letting the other party members do the dirty work of actually facing the monsters -- even though Ormraxes usually has the best AC, the most HP, and is of the highest level.

Maybe I´m a bit old fashioned but a arcane casters place on battlefield isn`t the first line more the last.
And out triangulating the effects of his spells if in time there is time is not wrong in the last.
Cautious vs Coward.
I´ve once read a short description of the Style of Silver "Paradoxes of Defence"
Defend, kill, goe to the pub and drink a beer.
Most of my fighting Chars use their brains and try to use advantages in combat.
If prefferring to fight from a good range with a bow or using better armor or use enviromental advantages, as long as no InChar Reasons forbid this.

 

[Larry Fitz]

BADA- an explanation

Darkness,

BADA (Bothered About Dragongirl's Aim) is an organizatiion with two members so far, myself and Blood Jester. On another thread Dragongirl shot the poor thread after it had been mortally wounded. Her intent was to put it out of its misery, but the darn thing refused to die. BADA is about the dignity that wounded and Hijacked threads deserve. If you really feel a thread is suffering, give it the respect to let it die alone, and if you're going to shoot it, don't miss.

In order to not wound or hijack this thread, I shall point out that after rereading the various posts it seems as if Ormraxes was just posting to get us all to browbeat Thulsa into allowing what he wants, however I really think that Thulsa is being too stingy when it comes to the Headband of Intellect and starting equipment for characters above 1st level. How do other GM's handle the starting equipment question?

 

[Rel]

Re: BADA- an explanation

How do other GM's handle the starting equipment question?

In my game, if you die you lose a level and your next character starts with items/money equal to what the DMG says is appropriate for a character of that level. The only restriction is that no more than 50% of that value can be spent on any single item you have.

If character death was more common, I'd probably change this because otherwise the volume of treasure would tend to accumulate among the survivors to an uncomfortable level.

 

[S'mon]

Re: BADA- an explanation

In order to not wound or hijack this thread, I shall point out that after rereading the various posts it seems as if Ormraxes was just posting to get us all to browbeat Thulsa into allowing what he wants, however I really think that Thulsa is being too stingy when it comes to the Headband of Intellect and starting equipment for characters above 1st level. How do other GM's handle the starting equipment question?

See the poll that's been running:
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26204

 

[Roland Delacroix]

OMFG-Had to stop painting figs to reply

Just so you know where i'm coming from, i'm running RttToEE right now. Thulsa, it seems to me that you are highly resticting this group and because of that they are getting their ass beat. I'm not surprised at the 23 deaths. D&D assumes that when a character faces a CR he will have wealth appropriate to his level. With the restrictions you are placing, your players are probably AT LEAST at -2 ECL.

Everything you are changing about your 3e game is typical of '2e syndrome'. In 3e there are magic items galore, without them you will die. In 3e there are powerfull spells, without them you will die. In 3e there are powerfull abilities, without them you will die. As your group has proven, you can't go into 3e with 2e assumptions. If you want slow advancement and low power, you are in the WRONG GAME. Get the new LotR game, I hear its good.

This is a hard module. For comparison, i'm letting my group go crazy with any feat, PrC, or item they wanna make. I'm even handing out better spells from other books. 32 point buy too, allowing any races. They still get beat down on a regular basis, with good tactics! We have had 4 deaths so far, and we are just starting the CRM.

Starting with RttToEE was a mistake as well, IMO. This is a meat grinder adventure where Monte Cook munchkins every monster/spell and item in the core rules to tear your party up. Not the best thing for a group new to 3e. My group was pretty new to 3e as well, I started them at 1st level and played them up to 4th. This gave us a chance to learn the system, them and me. Worked out pretty well.

Ormraxes: I would get a new DM immediatly if I were you. Don't let one guy screw up the whole 3e experience. I know he means well, but it sounds like he needs some playing time to adjust.

Gah, too angry to be coherent, i'll add more later.

EDIT: Later. Ormraxes; when I posted above I didn't mean dropping this DM from the group, sorry if it sounded that way. It's obvious he's a good friend of yours, and a good DM too. Adjusting from 2e to 3e is very difficult for the hardcore 2e players because so many assumptions have changed. I meant, maybe someone else should try DM'ing a group of new, 1st level characters. Let everyone get a taste of the new game system before throwing them into the most difficult module out to date. Trying to 'balance' out the game when noone fully understands it is impossible.

Thulsa: It seems you are having a hard time dealing with the waaaay increased power level of 3e PC's. Please, give 3e a chance before making changes. Try restricting it to Core Rules only. There are still many choices for your PC's and the stuff there has been playtested to death. Thousands of gamers believe Core Rules work as-is, no deletions. Every group is different, but cm'mon, give it a try. A smart DM, which you sound like, should be able to challenge your party with whats given no matter what they have.

Try a few pre-made modules, they have monsters and treasure all laid out. I suggest the Freeport series, and Of Sound Mind. Sunless Citadel is supposed to be a good one too. With those few under your (groups) belt you and your party should have an idea of where Dungeons and Dragons has changed. It's a great game, but very different from 1e-2e. I know, I still have a 1e game on thursdays, hardcore guys i'm gonna have to drag kicking and screaming into 3e.

 

[Arravis]

I hope that Thulsa returns to reply to this thread...