D&D General I need some lore help for the Lord of the First (Baator)

[Epic Meepo]

Been a planar lore junkie since the 3.5e days with a particular emphasis on Baator and infernal politics, and... Yeah, trying to square 5e's version of Zariel with the version from 2e is a pain in the rear.

Personally, I opt to split them into two separate characters:

• The 2e Zariel that fell from grace alongside Triel/Baalzebul and Belial in the ancient past, served as Lord of the First up through the Reckoning of Hell, and was then overthrown and imprisoned by Bel.
• The 5e Zariel (whom I've renamed Astarte, for my purposes), whose fall from grace and ascent to power in the Nine Hells was much more recent, more in accordance with her lore from Descent into Avernus.

I'm inclined to say "Zariel" is the name attached to anyone serving as rightful Lord of Avernus. Asmodeus strips the name from any former lord and gifts to their successor as a badge of office. (Bel was just a placeholder, so Asmodeus never renamed him. Bel was blinded by hubris after seizing power, so he didn't immediately realize the significance of Asmodeus continuing to call him Bel.)

 

[Derthwen]

So I a while back made a time line for who the Lord of Avernus is in the Forgotten Realm and made all I could find work as well as the connections to the Realms. it does end up with Zariel as Lord of the first for only about 30 years at most. this is only part of it

Forgotten realms has a habbit in 1e and 2e of stuff being listed a veggly long time ago and it ending up the time being much shorter. This does mean an Eon in the hells is 5 years.

*for note :
1354 DR Zariel Falls
Adnd 1e – 1358 (1358 time of troubles); Tiamat is called out as Lord of Avernus
Adnd 2e – 1368 DR;
3e – 1372 DR;
4e 1479 DR;
5e – 1498 and latter; (Decent into Avernus is 1494); Tyranny of dragons is 1489DR

the known reigns are (assuming no unknown gaps after 1e)
-30,000 DR Malkizid (solar) was banished to the hells by Corellon and became a devil lord (layer unknown). Thousands of years ago was banished from the hells and went to gahena becoming a Yugolath lord.

-Gargauth – pre tiamat; was overthrown by Bel, but unknown who took over after.

(-1071 DR (maybe)) - 1358 : Tiamat (2428 years or less); is from when Tiamats Unther aspect was killed; i am guessing she was given Lord of Avernus sometime after and she was Lord of Avernus during 1e
(1358 (earliest)-> 1368 -> 1372 (latest)) Zariel is named lord of Avernus in 2e (14 years at most). Tiamat starts gaining divinity back. after this time is when Zariel is imprisoned by Bel and Tiamat
(1368 (earliest) ->1372 -> 1479 -> 1484 (if BG3) (latest) ) Bel is Lord of the Avernus in 3e and 4e (assuming no gaps) (116 years max)
(1479 (earliest) ->1484 (if BG3) -> 1489 -> 1494) Zariel is mentioned is Rise of Timat (1498 DR) to be recently reinstated as Archduchess of Avernus (15 years at most; 10 years min)

-if Bladers Gate 3 is being used then it takes place just after Decent into Avernus and Zariel has been in charge for at least 10 years (since 1484 DR)
Assuming there are not gaps with someone else as Lord of Avernus. Here are the duration each of the 3 that have had the position during the 136 years from 1e to Decent into Avernus
Tiamat : 0 -> 10 years
Bel : 107 -> 116 years
Zariel : 16 -> 29 years

 

[Hriston]

I love Tiamat. There's another character that has gotten smacked around by editions like crazy.

In Ed Greenwood's article "The Nine Hells, Part I" in Dragon #75, he describes Tiamat as the nominal ruler of Avernus whose "actual authority extends only as far as her physical reach." Nevertheless, he says she is served by two Dukes of Hell, Malphas and Amduscias (for whom he includes detailed write-ups), and a named pit fiend, Goap, who enforce her will with the companies of abishai and erinyes under their commands. Greenwood also describes that there are "approximately fifty" "lesser unique devils" who are always scheming and vying amongst themselves to gain enough support to achieve a better position. He names a number of these and gives details on three: Nergal, Bist, and Caim whose names are appended with the tag "Greater Devil". Perhaps Zariel could be conceived of as one of these who gained ascendancy over the plane for a time. Likewise for Bel as another named pit fiend. I believe this article is also the first publication to use Avernus as the name of Hell's first level.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Pretty sure Tyranny’s time frame is 1484.

 

[Derthwen]

Pretty sure Tyranny’s time frame is 1484.

The wiki is giving it as 1489.

-I fixed an error in mine where i flipped the last few numbers for some dates, the math is still correct

 

[JamesLFlowers]

Remember, depending on what version of the lore you are working in each level of Baator is limitless or maybe limited in size, and even in the limited version Avernus is the biggest (or at least seems to be) level. So multiple entities claiming to be the Lord of Avernus and ruling as such within their sphere of influence - and fighting each other or pointedly ignoring each other when not fighting the Blood Wars - is a viable situation. And that doesn't even take into account Asmodeus playing them against each other and spreading stories about which is the Lord of Avernus, or the other ArchDevils doing the same. Baator politics is, excuse the pun, HELL.

Which basically boils down to any one or all of the lore could be true, could be false, could be propaganda. In the end as a DM, just grab a story and go with it, then change it in the middle of things to surprise the characters.