D&D 5E I think we can safely say that 5E is a success, but will it lead to a new Golden Era?

[delericho]

Beyond that, it's not really the core books that makes Pathfinder popular, I think, but the adventure paths (and support material for said paths).

This is an important point. If D&D 5e is indeed easy to convert into, it's not really an either/or proposition - I could easily envisage someone running Pathfinder APs with the 5e rules.

Indeed, that approach isn't a loss for Paizo; on the contrary, if the core of their business is indeed Adventure Paths (and even moreso if it's subscriptions to Adventure Paths), then that's a win - more people playing, regardless of system, should mean more people buying (or subscribing).

(Incidentally, if WotC do produce some sort of license for support materials for 5e, I would be surprised to see Paizo adopt it formally... but I'd also expect them to host and publicise fan-made semi-official conversions of the APs to 5e. The former because I suspect they don't have the bandwidth to actively support both and won't want to tie their business to someone else's product again; the latter because those conversions help encourage 5e players to buy-in to the Pathfinder adventures.)

 

[Saplatt]

... People need to stop thinking this is some kind of zero-sum competition between Paizo and WotC.

Agreed. If this was nothing more than a zero-sum situation between D&D and Pathfinder, the 5E sales would be nowhere near what we're seeing on Amazon.

The PHB is number one in books, for Pete's sake. That number could not have been reached even if every single Pathfinder fan jumped ship (and obviously that's not happening.)

The only explanation is that they are making lots of sales to relapsed fans of various previous editions and some new fans as well.

 

[Razuur]

I was real big on 1e, 2e, and 3e. 4e went in the wrong direction for me and left me behind. While initially upset, I eventually accepted it, and then moved on to Pathfinder. In the last year, I have been drawn back into the exciting OSR scene – which is really exciting right now. Dark Dungeons, Blood & Treasure, and Fantastic Heroes and Witchery were all dazzling me with nostalgia and hit my yearning for simple easy fun RPGing. I realized that I had gotten lost in the rules, and forgot the experience.

I find the new edition “comfortable” – not really EXCITING – but comforting. Stories excite me. I need a ruleset that is flexible enough to allow me to tell the stories that I want to tell. 5e really does feel like a bridge between the earlier editions and 3e/PF (can’t really speak for 4e). There are some cool innovations (advantages, narrative stuff, etc), but nothing too surprising. Really easy to house rule without breaking everything. Pretty compatible with 1e, 2e, 3e, Pathfinder, and OSR stuff. And for the things about it that don’t work for me… well it is REALLY easy to change (looking at you short/long rest!). I am looking forward to the DMG’s modularity to see what work WOTC has already done for me.

Could the edition have gone further? Could it have broken lots of brave new ground? Absolutely. I would have loved for it to go more Narrative – but I am glad they didn’t go to far as that would have further restricted the audience. Would have made some new fans, lost some others, and created more schism. The safer approach probably brought back the more cautious fans like myself. The general compatibility with most other editions makes it very playable and is a real plus. Drastic changes (like the move to 4e) they would have severed another arm of players (not dissing 4e at all - I respect that there are people out there who love 4e - but no one can deny the division it caused).

This edition feels to me … like “classic DnD”. In fact the PHB is much simpler than I expected. I am tired of reading threads on optimum builds and statistical trends of taking these feats/classes versus others. I want a game that focuses on adventuring, ideas, and fun, and I feel that so far this edition is doing that so far.

I just want to sit down and go run some adventures. Back to the basics. I am hoping the new FR setting takes that approach as well – leans towards the Grey box - sets up a clean framework that I can go and make mine.

I am still buying Pathfinder, and OSR – but I am also now buying WOTC for the first time in *YEARS*. So while the one ring may not fit everyone, it definitely connects the editions. And if it leads to a new golden era. Alls the better!

(FYI - nothing in this thread is targeted at saying that other editions/styles of play are bad, or that 5e is meets everyone’s needs. I totally
respect all opinions and play styles.)

 

[Plaguescarred]

The PHB hitting #1 best seller on Amazon is a great news for 5E. #CongratsWoTC

@mikemearls I guess D&D is a thing in Canada - the core rulebooks are in the top 3 spots for all books at amazon.ca


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[The Black Ranger]

I would wage everything I have the reason why it's number 1 at Amazon is because of the low price. I know people who love to buy RPG books, even if they don't play the games.

Also, it's not very hard to make the Amazon top 10 anyway. The books are selling yes, but I wouldn't the edition a success yet.

 

[Haffrung]

The PHB hitting #1 best seller on Amazon is a great news for 5E. #CongratsWoTC

@mikemearls I guess D&D is a thing in Canada - the core rulebooks are in the top 3 spots for all books at amazon.ca

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And that's not even counting the books bought through Chapters, who charge the same price online and had the books first.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Agreed. If this was nothing more than a zero-sum situation between D&D and Pathfinder, the 5E sales would be nowhere near what we're seeing on Amazon.

The PHB is number one in books, for Pete's sake. That number could not have been reached even if every single Pathfinder fan jumped ship (and obviously that's not happening.)

The only explanation is that they are making lots of sales to relapsed fans of various previous editions and some new fans as well.

While I agree about the D&D/Pathfinder 'competition' being in no way 0-sum (I'm sure plenty of people play both, or even just buy some stuff from each to adapt one to the other), there's no dramatic 'only explanation' for a D&D core book selling really well right out the gate like this. That's just how D&D sells. Core books sell really well, especially at first. D&D has a contingent of loyal fans and early adopters who gleefully buy & play each new edition. That contingent hasn't shed that many fans over the years, in spite of the 'divisiveness' of the edition war, so they're able to make 5e a rousing success at launch, just like they did for 4e and 3e and 2e.

Past-ed hold-outs, including Pathfinder converts, even if they ever do come back to a new edition, would presumably do so late in the cycle, after the ed has 'proven' itself. They really shouldn't matter to the inevitable new-ed sales spike. (Edit: though, with the protracted announcement and playtest of "Next" we could be seeing a combination of early-adopter sales, /and/ returning hold-outs 'worn down' by hearing about the 'new D&D' for the last two-and-a-half years.)

 

[Saplatt]

[t]here's no dramatic 'only explanation' for a D&D core book selling really well right out the gate like this. That's just how D&D sells.

Please share with me any data you have that shows that any previous D&D product reached #1 in books at Amazon.

The highest I recall seeing is when the 4E PHB briefly reached #33.

 

[Jester David]

Please share with me any data you have that shows that any previous D&D product reached #1 in books at Amazon.

The highest I recall seeing is when the 4E PHB briefly reached #33.

But it's impossible to know if 3.5, 3.0, or even 2e would have hit those same ranks. We don't know if it's total sales really making 5e a hit, the high prices pushing people to amazon, or just a whole bunch of pre-orders and the rank will drop after release.

 

[Jester David]

Everyone keeps talking about how WotC should put the Starter Set in mass market stores: Wal-Mart, Target, etc.
A good idea but not where I would go to target young players.

Put the Starter Set in Scholastic Book Fairs.
Get the product in the Middle Schools and High Schools. Offer school libraries copies of the core rulebooks. That will get people playing and interested.