I thought I was a good DM...

[Mystery Man]

I tried that. Didn't work. You just have to keep talking about it. Eventually it will penetrate the thickest skulled player.

I would follow Henry's advice and entertain. I would add, show no mercy. It's what they really want, and they'll keep coming back for more.

 

[Steverooo]

Zombie's Song:

You really SHOULD talk to your players, but you should do it, in game...

"Huh? Whaddaya mean the guard woldn't act like that?"

"Really? Why wouldn't the Thieves' Guild do that?"

Maybe they'll convince you, but then again, maybe you can show them why they're wrong, too...

In any case, what I do is try to run a campaign where realism plays a part (GASP! He said the "R" word, in an RPG!) If I accused a local cop of trying to steal my goods, whaddaya think would happen to me?

Well, since you're feeling "down", I wrote this forya... Here'sya something to a-go-go to...

"I have this beef with a cop, you see...
I think he's trying to STEAL from me!
I tell'im I should be callin' IAD!
Y'know what da suckah done done to me?

First he tells me that I'm under arrest!
So I says to him that he can do his best!
He pulls his sword and whacks in the head and breast,
And drags me to the prison with all the rest!

I'm accused of a murder where my goods are stored,
He drags me before the Trial Board,
I'm thinkin' he's after my golden hoard!
Please get me outta this dungeon, Lord!"

(Now you all know why I am forbidden to plays Bards, in games with my friends!)

Anyway, if it'll make you feel better, you can have a Bard at the trial sing this little ditty to them from the witness stand as "his testimony", and if they keep up the same sorts of non-sense, feel free to make him a recurring character, who follows them about to document their misadventures, and immortalize them in song...

...until they kill her. Then they can be arrested, tried, and hanged for a REAL murder!

 

[Desdichado]

I don't think you're a bad DM, per se. I like to run things similar to what you're describing, and for that matter, I like to play in games similar to that as well.

However, it's been my experience that some other players are not like that. They have their own ideas about how the game should go. Many of them also prefer to be railroaded, as a matter of fact, and don't know what to do without some very clear hooks that say "Go this way" or "Do this".

 

[swrushing]

Ok, going from the perspective of how could it have gone this way...

If insulting the guard is enough to get you brought in, you see the cuthbertian's as a stickler type and not that that is unwarranted, its probably a good idea to SHOW the players this. If i intend to run them afoul of a order with that combo of uptightedness and power, i will show them "as you move thru the city" scenes of the respect/fear accorded those guards and possibly give them a scene where they see someone else disrespect them and get haulked off... or at least a tale of it.

In other words, before you put them and the law in confrontation, show them how the law is treated and expects to be treated. Show them this is or is not an old west "take down the sherrif if you dont like it" circumstance BEFORE you let them run afoul of the law.

You ought to give them a notion of whether this is a good law enforcement town or a bad one. Otherwise, they may draw the wrong conclusions for your setting.

Maybe you did that and did not mention it in your post.

Second issue, while you seem to be downplaying the cuthbertian's role, make it sound like the request to come in for questioning was reasonable, the IN CHAINS part sets a different tone. "Come downtown and lets clear this up" is one thing and often something reasonable characters will go along with but "in chains" sets an entirely different tone and most will object.

So, if my "innocent guy" was about to be slapped in chains for no crime, I might well assume this is a BAD lawman town as well, and might be looking for a less than cooperative answer too.


I might surmise that you had one clear image of what a Cuthbertian priest was and the player might have had a different one, or none at all.

 

[MerakSpielman]

The question here is whether you force the players to adapt to your style of DMing or whether they force you to adapt to their style of playing.

The players cannot be wrong about what they find fun.

You cannot be wrong about what you find fun.

If the two don't match, this might not be the group for you. Everybody should have fun.

 

[Nellisir]

Sounds reasonable to me, but I don't know what you were saying. Does the adventure really revolve around the PCs being arrested?

Part of the problem may be that the players only ever see one choice. A good, quick thinking DM can keep things so smooth that, unless she tells the players they're in new ground, they assume they're doing exactly what they're supposed to, and you intended for them to go exactly where they wandered to. Hey, it makes sense to them!

If you want to throw the whiners off next session, let the PCs raise a stink, make asses of themselves...and fine them. This actually makes alot of sense, particularly if the PCs are good aligned. Don't play to the players' expectations and toss the characters in the clink. Let 'em roam the streets.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[barsoomcore]

The players cannot be wrong about what they find fun.

You cannot be wrong about what you find fun.

That is the smartest thing I've ever read on this whole subject.

 

[BSF]

It sounds like you have a lot more in gaming style differences than you do in good DM/bad DM problems. Your player's aren't used to having to respond to the environment around them in the manner that you are presenting.

They are seeing a body outside the church and suspicious law enforcement as your plot device to frame them. Not as a logical consequence of circumstances.

You are trying to portray NPC's with individual personalities while they may be accustomed to talking heads that tell them what they need to know.

They may also be making the assumption that all NPC's should see the world from their perspective. The PC's are always right, aren't they? If that is an assumption they have always made, you have given them a bit of a shock. "The Guard wouldn't act like that." Maybe they think a follower of St. Cuthbert should act in a very specific way. Actually, these type of assumptions were one of my biggest motivators to create my own gods for my game and to ditch Dwarves and Elves as races. I got rid of the things that had the worst stereotypes. Then, my players started trying to learn about the game world.

I also agree that perhaps they are only seeing one choice out there and are assuming that you are railroading them down one path. This is not necessairly true, but it may be a perception.

I think communication is the key here. You need to reset some expectations on your DM style. Without going into specifics of each NPC, explain to them that each NPC has their own perspective and personality that you are trying to portray. To maneuver through the politics, the PC's would do well to learn more of each personality and treat the NPC's like people instead of window dressing or plot hooks.

 

[Kichwas]

You got a breakdown in assumptions. A lot of players feel that their PCs, as -adventurers- will automatically get special considerations from society. If you feel that, as the second poster stated, the first session is about trust, then you might want to reboot things.

Spend half the next session laying out your assumptions of the setting - how you see the world working - and hearing theirs. See what you will give on and what you won't. Then restart the game with them knowing how it's going to go, what sorts of consequences will be seen for actions taken.

 

[nopantsyet]

Sounds like you're doing fine. Ask your players why the guards or the thieves guild wouldn't do that...Are they members of either? Do they know the codes and oaths involved in each? Do they know what commands they've been issued from their superiors, and under what command those superiors are acting?

Any time players start assuming they know how your world works, they're playing a different game. This isn't chess. "But the cleric can only attack diagonally!"

Seriously, you should talk to the players. Let them know that the way you run the game, there are consequences for actions, and that each of your NPCs was complying with his obligations. A town guard and a cleric of a god of justice are going to enforce the law where authorized, and act on suspicions where they deem appropriate.

In that situation, I would follow up by having the players roleplay their experience within the justic system. Give them a trial, making sure you've got a clear idea of what the law is and how it is enforced. If it's a LG system, try to apply both mercy and justice. Give them an opportunity to prove their innocence, but put a mark of justice on them in the meantime. Then set them loose to find the murderer. Maybe assign the cleric to accompany them. Once their innocence is proven, the cleric should be cordial and congratulatory with them, but unapologetic for his actions. The guard might be more apt to apologize for the mistake. Don't do them any favors; acquitted suspects don't get any compensation or special treatment.

In short, don't let them bully you. Run the game you've conceived, and just ask them to be open-minded and try to play a deeper game than they have in the past.

Good luck.