"I tuck the sunrod in my belt".

[MarkB]

I guess the real question is:

Does darkness actually add anything to your game?

Without heavy modifications to the existing rules, I doubt it. The light rules as written are basically presented as a big screw to use against the PCs if they neglect to write "a light source" on their character sheet.

If you're going to go all out and actually work out where shadowy areas on a battlefield are, and actually play monsters as if they don't want to stumble about in the dark all the time, then I'd say feel free to enforce accurate usage of light sources along with it. I think such a system has the potential to add a lot to the game (ok, if you move over there with our light source, then I have concealment because I'm in the shadows from that statue, so I can hide!) but also a lot of complexity.

This is one area where I was really looking forward to the DDI Virtual Tabletop. One thing that such a system could do really well would be to simulate the effects of light sources and shadows automatically, in real-time, based upon what light sources each creature on the board is carrying. You'd get your added tactical dimension, without the complexity.

 

[TerraDave]

I still remember the continual light headbands from back in the day.

 

[Hawkeye]

I still remember the continual light headbands from back in the day.

A bag full of pebbles with Continual Light cast on them is what we used. In between adventures, we would stock back up on them. You could use a sling to launch them as far as you needed or leave a trail that could also act as an early warning system if they suddenly went out or as an automatic counter to darkness spells.

Hawkeye

 

[Rechan]

If you're going to go all out and actually work out where shadowy areas on a battlefield are, and actually play monsters as if they don't want to stumble about in the dark all the time, then I'd say feel free to enforce accurate usage of light sources along with it. I think such a system has the potential to add a lot to the game (ok, if you move over there with our light source, then I have concealment because I'm in the shadows from that statue, so I can hide!) but also a lot of complexity.

Yes, this is what I would like to do. I use Maptools, which actually takes light sources into consideration - you move your token away, the lightsource equipped actually shows up, and shows what you can/can't see.

But sunrods.

Also, darkness/low light helps lurkers/sneaky monsters. I also really want to do some Exploration, and that does necessitate going into darker areas, possibly sending someone to Scout.

 

[Felon]

Our table has never really used low-light vision in combat either. I guess this goes with not tracking light sources. We use these things more in RP, characters with low-light vision might notice things that other players miss.

Well, party vision is sort of like party overland speed. You're only as strong as your weakest link. All those lousy humans means you gotta have light, whether or not the dwarf or elf need it. And sunrods being cheap as they are, just go ahead and light the joint up.

Oddly, as in 3e, 4e gives no consideration to the difficulties of spotting things that are concealed (by darkness or otherwise) except for creatures trying to hide. Spotting a structure from a half-mile away at night should seem to be more difficult than in broad daylight, and should be easier for the character with low-light vision than for a human.

 

[KarinsDad]

Oddly, as in 3e, 4e gives no consideration to the difficulties of spotting things that are concealed (by darkness or otherwise) except for creatures trying to hide. Spotting a structure from a half-mile away at night should seem to be more difficult than in broad daylight, and should be easier for the character with low-light vision than for a human.

DMs should adjust for this.

Perception in normal light, normal. Perception in dim light, -5 or even -10 for extremely dim light. Penalty for low light vision creature, -2 or even -5.

This is really no different than adding bonuses or penalties for any skill for any reason.

 

[Zustiur]

I'm quite disappointed with the light and vision rules in 4E, but I guess that's all part of the 'non-simulationist' game. Look at the situations where it actually counts:
Low light vision only applies in a dimly lit area. It confers no other benefits what so ever.
Dimly lit area's consist of: The environment and candles.
i.e. the encounter is dimly lit (moonlit night or cave entrance etc), or the characters are using candles (as if!)
As most parties have at least one character without LLV, both of these situations are pretty rare.
Candles are rare because torches and sunrods are so much better. Why would anyone use a candle?
Low light environments may not be rare but they only rarely produce an effect. This is because they generally occur next to dark environments. If you know there's a dark area near by, you're going to light it up, ergo, the dim area is also lit up.

If you want/expect low light vision to play any part in 4E, you're pretty much required to house rule it, probably in one of the following ways:
a) Reduce the abundance of bright light sources
b) Reduce the effectiveness of light sources
c) Add dimly lit area beyond the bight light of existing light sources
d) Alter the way LLV works
e) Adjust penalties to perception etc for lacking a light source
f) Have larger encounter areas... and at least one of the above

 

[Skallgrim]

I'm really surprised that many people don't have light as a factor in their games. It doesn't always come up in a fight, but every single fight I've ever DMed in 4th with "light issues" has been fun.

I had one troglodyte cavern where the Rogue crept in total darkness, then ignited and tossed a sunrod, only to reveal all the troglodytes around the cavern. The best part was where one Trog, unable to close into combat, kicked the Sunrod into the river. I tracked it's movement as it was tumbled downstream, and the Elf Ranger actually went in after it (it was our last one).

I've had a recent encounter with web bridges and darkness, where the Cleric was using his Floating Lantern. We couldn't see all of the enemies, so he kept moving it slowly forward. From the darkness a Cambion with Darkvision kept bombing us with fire blasts, so it was really cool as one ghoul, then a bodak, then another ghoul, then another bodak got revealed. He couldn't move the lantern far enough forward to illuminate the Cambion without leaving us in darkness, so we had to move forward towards an unseen hazard.

I had another encounter with some teleporting crypts, where the characters would get separated in the Crypts. Some times, the person trapped in the Crypt would have no light, so they'd be there in the dark with a monster (or another PC) and other times, it would be the guy WITH the light source, so everyone else would be in the dark.

We also usually let the halfling rogue and the Elf Ranger sneak up to scout out many encounters. The human cleric and dwarf fighter (and the clumsy tiefling wizard) have to stay back to avoid spoiling their stealth rolls, so it also helps that the light source stays with the one guy who can't see in darkness or dim light.

Light sources have really improved the tactical/environmental aspect of my games, so I'm surprised that seems to be the exception. We alternate very heavily between the "quiet/no light" sneaking and the "hit the lights/him them hard" fighting.

 

[Destil]

I had an Indiana Jones style adventurer once in an FR game that carried an ancient coin on him at all times, and at a command word I could switch between no light, light, continual flame and (1/day) daylight on it. His outfit was specifically designed to accommodate it, with half a dozen handy straps just the right size to hold it in place.

 

[Chronosome]

(Re: Skallgrim)

Great stuff! That's about where I am with light. It's a really powerful tool for evoking feelings of danger and suspense, and a fun addition to combat. Makes Stealth actually mean something. I'm also surprised more people aren't employing it. I think the vague-ness of the system (I like "non-simulationist") elminates a lot of the old hassle.

Though I wasn't aware of the problem people have with the sunrod's grand radius. I've only just begun running a 4e campaign; I'll have to keep an eye on that.