I want my Psionic browser too! (Or how the hell would you know?)

[Wepwawet]

I strongly disagree with the OP's "objective" reason #4.
That assertion is very subjective. I know I don't agree with it, neither fanboy2000 neither many people.

Apart from that, very good post!
Those are also my own feelings (I'm a 4E guy, btw)

 

[Piratecat]

I strongly disagree with the OP's "objective" reason #4.
That assertion is very subjective. I know I don't agree with it, neither fanboy2000 neither many people.

Really? I love playing 4e, but I think it was poorly handled in a number of ways. Then again, hindsight is 20/20, and all that.

 

[Cadfan]

Piratecat- Number 3 can be safely dismissed from your list. That's... kind of my point. Forum moderation is truth-neutral here, so the best trolls just make stuff up instead of use bad words.

And I don't think its all that difficult to separate out those who are misinformed from those who are lying. Even if you can't tell from the OP, you can generally tell after four or five posts.

Look, obviously ENWorld has made its choice on moderator philosophy. You've gone with the "objective but gameable rules" philosophy instead of the "subjective but possibly flawed judgment" philosophy. And that's... adequate.

I'm going to bow out of this. After having gone through the 3e/4e split on this forum, I feel like I could write a manual on how to troll this place while shielding yourself in the forum rules. Suffice to say, its not that hard to tell when someone honestly holds an opinion versus when they're just being obnoxious, and conversation with such a person is not civil, even when you use polite language. Watching network news for a few hours should prove that conclusively.

 

[Azgulor]

Whoa, nellie! Deep breaths everyone.

Azgulor, that's a good post. I disagree with subjective opinion #4 (3e has always had a ton of mechanics posts), but otherwise I think you're generally right on the money. Rant posts seldom do more than piss people off, but you did a good job of laying out some objective and subjective issues.

Thanks for the kind words PCat!

After sleeping on it, yeah, subjective #4 is probably clouded by wishful thinking/nostalgia. I think perhaps the difference was that topics that started without game-mechanics discussions stayed that way or at least course-corrected back to the topic at hand fairly quickly. Posts on game-mechanics were perhaps easier to spot even if the number of posts/threads discussing them are about the same.

Or maybe it's just me.

 

[Azgulor]

Hear, hear.

Expect to be levelling up soon.

Hot damn! I did level! Thanks, everyone.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Piratecat- Number 3 can be safely dismissed from your list. That's... kind of my point.

3. They're actually right and you disagree with them.

Why do you even post here if you just now stated that you will - always will - adamantly refuse to even consider anyone else's point of view?

You can go on and on about civil conversation all you want, but right now, you very literally just stated "I am always right and the only time people aren't trolling or lying is when they agree with me."

Yeah, that's civil.

 

[Vorput]

4. When I discovered ENWORLD, in the early days of 3e, the majority of posts were discussions of campaigns, adventures, character backgrounds, etc. More than 50% of 4e posts are mechanics-oriented: how do I massage the mechanics to restore a 3e feature, why such a feature was a problem and shouldn't be put in, why minions rock, why minions suck, etc. etc.

5. I really long for the days of the ENWORLD community, rather than the camps we have now.

I agree whole-heartedly with those points.

And also this:

I've been lurking here for years on and off and I just don't seem to find anything anymore that I find all that interesting. It's a lot of stuff about why 4e is great, why 4e sucks, and some system neutral stuff that just doesn't really discuss what I care about.

 

[Vorput]

Hah hah, oh yes. The forum rules against insulting people and putting words in their mouth STOPS CIVIL CONVERSATION. THE MAN IS KEEPING YOU DOWN.

Guys, we can't have actual conversations because we aren't allowed to aimlessly attack and flame one another. The horror!

Oh if only there weren't limits on how often I could give xp to people...

 

[tuxgeo]

I agree, from one perspective. From another, when you post about your being offended on a discussion board, you must know you will be asked to explain it. If you don't want to discuss what you post, don't post it. It's a discussion board, not a bitching board. That's what blogs are for.

I don't think I can get behind that last statement of "That's what blogs are for," because I've seen good, constructive comments in blog posts. To me, blogs are not only for bitching (not that I ever have blogged, myself, so what do I know?).
I'm hoping that this apparent dichotomy between forums-for-positive-posts and blogs-for-bitching is a misinterpretation on my part.