I Want the Old Realms Back

[Kzach]

Or did I miss something?

Well, aside from a few god deaths and the change of the weave and a few other things, it wasn't so much that there was a cataclysmic change, it was that the sheer amount of material blew out of all proportion to the point where there wasn't a nook or cranny that wasn't developed in some way and every area had some uber-mensch Mary Sue NPC that made the PC's entirely redundant.

It was more of a continued trend from the 2e era that just went to crazy levels of insanity in the 3e era. Quite frankly it was TIME for a massive shake-up to the world. Otherwise not only would the setting not really suit the edition, but it really didn't have anywhere else to go.

 

[Talok]

I really don't see how the rabid pro 4E realms defenders can claim that each edition had completely different FR campaign settings. From the gray box till the end of 3.5 the realms remained relatively the same with minor changes here and there. It was fleshed out and it evolved. Changes did happen but made sense in the context of what was occrung in the world. It was always recognizable as the Forgotten Realms. The spellplague changed it so completely that it's barely recognizable anymore. It's more like a generic campaign setting now. The interesting lore and "wow" factors of the realms were taken away or made irrelevant.

 

[Zaran]

Well, based upon how many people complained about the new Realms... I'm not at all surprised they decided not to do any area sourcebooks. Talk about about throwing away good money after bad.

I mean really... how many of you out there who hated the 4E FR campaign guide do you think would suddenly "come around" to it if there were area sourcebooks on certain parts of it?

(And if any of you say "I might have!", well now you're getting your wish. Pick up the Neverwinter Campaign Setting and see if it grabs you.)

Yeah, I am picking up the Neverwinter book. But I feel this book as with the Book of Vile Darkness are just marketing ploys linked to the game and movie, respectively. Neverwinter seemed to always be a setting on it's own too.

I also WANT WotC to put out GM books so I'll buy any book of that sort they put out just to show them that it's worth the support.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

To many fallacies going around here. "Just use your old stuff", well that's fine and dandy but what if people want the old material updated with new 4th edition mechanics, classes, monsters etc... They are just SOL!! Wizards makes money from people buying products that are available now and in the future. Do you really think Wizards wants you to just go back and play previous editions and not touch anything in the future?

It doesn't take a genius to see that the 4th edition Realms fell to the wayside. The few of you that actually like the change, well fair play to you but when there are more that don't like the Realms than actually like the Realms then we have a problem.

Oh about the 5th edition remark: The OP never gave any sort of time frame and if he thinks 5th is just around the corner then that's his business. If you don't like it then close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and sing "la la la la la" all day long.

 

[SouthMaster]

The 4e Dark Sun ignored the expanded and revised box.
So a new Forgotten Realms can ignore the 4e version.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The 4e Dark Sun ignored the expanded and revised box.
So a new Forgotten Realms can ignore the 4e version.

No it can't. Because the Forgotten Realms has never been just a world for an RPG. It's also the largest fantasy realm for D&D novels. So part of the whole reason for the 100 year jump was to open up new avenues for novel writers to place stories that didn't have to be shoehorned in around all the other stories that were being written, since most of what gets done in book form is considered "canon". Go back in time and you either have to do a Star Trek movie alt-universe thing... or have writers still get stuck in the middle of a swamp of plots and stories while trying not to step on each other's toes.

 

[jbear]

I really don't see how the rapid pro 4E realms defenders can claim that each edition had completely different FR campaign settings. From the gray box till the end of 3.5 the realms remained relatively the same with minor changes here and there. It was fleshed out and it evolved. Changes did happen but made sense in the context of what was occrung in the world. It was always recognizable as the Forgotten Realms. The spellplague changed it so completely that it's barely recognizable anymore. It's more like a generic campaign setting now. The interesting lore and "wow" factors of the realms were taken away or made irrelevant.

What are these defining factors that supposedly made the pre 4e-Realms so interesting?

When I think of the Forgotten Realms I think of Harpers, the Underdark, Menzoberranzan, Drow, Snirfeblin, Elminster, Drzzt and Artemis Entreri and Baldur's Gate. But nothing particularly jumps out at me that makes it special, or inspiring. Maybe the "rapid pro pre-4e realms defenders can point something out that should have stood out to me. It seemed like a pretty generic campaign setting to me.

hings going on in 4e FR: a part of the lost continent has returned due to the massive instability caused by the spell plague, smashing into the world, changing the face of the continent, and bringing an 'alien' culture with it. Mystra has been murdered and her mad murderer has been imprisoned by the other gods. An underground movement exists that move to awaken a powerful and chaotic Primordial. The centre of the continent has collapsed leaving the underdark exposed to the surface. The spellplague has left many of the world's creatures mutated and disfigured. Some people bear the scars of this plague and are able to use them in strange ways. An entire religion moves secretly to spread the plague, worshipping Spell Scarred Sharn, strange incomprehensible creatures from the Far Realm... etc etc etc.

I often wonder if people who criticise the FRCG have actually sat down and read it from cover to cover. Because it is packed full of juicy little titbits that are like gasoline on the fire of my imagination.

And to be honest, that was all I was looking for in a Campaign guide: inspiration. The rest I make my own.

Anyway, each to their own. When/if 5e comes around this issue in particular will be of little or no concern to me, personally.

 

[Kzach]

It doesn't take a genius to see that the 4th edition Realms fell to the wayside. The few of you that actually like the change, well fair play to you but when there are more that don't like the Realms than actually like the Realms then we have a problem.

Nobody would ever accuse me of being a genius.

That said, I'd like to see reliable stats on this rather than the rantings of vocal minorities on forums. When people don't like something, they seem to love telling everyone, whereas when people like something, they tend to keep quiet and just go on liking it regardless of all the people who say they shouldn't.

 

[Obryn]

To many fallacies going around here. "Just use your old stuff", well that's fine and dandy but what if people want the old material updated with new 4th edition mechanics, classes, monsters etc... They are just SOL!!

Um, what new mechanics would those be? Forgotten Realms is one of the most milquetoast settings ever made, mechanically-speaking.

As far as monsters go, the lion's share of the neat ones have already been released.

-O

 

[Nyronus]

Oh about the 5th edition remark: The OP never gave any sort of time frame and if he thinks 5th is just around the corner then that's his business. If you don't like it then close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and sing "la la la la la" all day long.

Actually, he did give a time frame. "Around the corner" is a metaphore indicative of a closeness of something, and, with aspect to time, a certain inevitability. To say something is just around the corner is to say it is close, and considering all of the low-brow slavering of oh-so-obvious triumphant rise of 5e to burn away its pale ancestor, its not a bad bet to make that he's in with that crowd. Which means he's painfully and objectively wrong.

Since you suggest those who "don't like" this idea behave as ignorant children and pretend that we aren't hearing it, a typical image thrown to imply another party is willfully ignoring the truth, I am going to bet your probably with him. I could be wrong of course: a lack of tone and body language changes a lot, but since we are going through a spitefully stupid cultural phase I have long since given up giving people the benefit of the doubt. If I am wrong in this regard, I apologize in advance.

For those of you who think 4th Edition is entering a death spiral (a term slapped onto it not a year after its launch, I might add) and is coming close to being replaced with a new e, I would like to draw your attention to a single fact: 4e was in development for at least 2 years. It was started in early 2005, and released in mid 08, two years of development with a year in between for printing and making a back catalogue. If 5e was close, as in, mid-2012 close, it would mean that it began development sometime in 2009... 2009 being the second year of the edition and being developed right alongside Dark Sun and the PHB3, both widely regarded as peaks of the system so far. It would mean they literally did not wait a full year to start a new edition. If your instead now moving the goal-posts to 2013, think again. This means they began at the start of one of their most critically acclaimed years. This means they where already jumping ship before they had a chance to see how their experiments with Dark Sun and PHB3 paid off. So now you have to think "Well, duh. I always said 2014." Well then, you'd be about as smart as brick, because that means that they began making a new edition the year after everyone went utterly gaga over Dark Sun and PHB3, and the Essentials stuff was just cooling for consumption. This would mean that you believe WotC so stupid that they would sink the ship just after it came into port. 2015 is the earliest possible date you could look at as far as 5e coming out in concerned, and while I'm not much of a fan of the stuff they've done post 2011, I don't see them trying to edition switch now. The new stuff isn't completely terrible: most of the bad gets over emphasized and the good ignored. Everyone spit blood over DDI and the New Builder. Now that the New Builder works fine and Dragon has had a string of good articles, no one has said anything. Other than to bring up tirelessly how the new CB and Dragon slacking justifies their hate. There is an endless stream of threads about Heroes of Shadow (rightfully so I might add) sucking. MV2 basically got a bit of a build up and a "Oh, that's nice" despite it being, from all accounts, awesome.

Furthermore to give in and edition jump the instant things look bad would be suicide. Why? There is a veritable hoard of bottom feeders in the so-called fanbase telling everyone just how greedy, stupid, and cowardly WotC and how likely they are to jump ship. To do so would vindicate the hysteric snarling of the bottom feeders that they were just a bunch of talentless hacks trying to dupe sheeple out of money all along, and the fanbase would collapse like the rotted wood its become. The groundless perception of this alone was enough to generate enough momentum to create a parasite company that is apparently outselling WotC at this point.

So then, no, 5e is not around the corner. Nor will it be for a while. I wouldn't bank on a 5e released before 2016, and even then if it comes out I also wouldn't bank on there being an active DnD brand for WotC to publish come 2026. Anyone who says that it will be released, let alone developed or announced soon is an idiot incapable of doing the simplest of research.

DnD has hit a rough phase. Like it, drop it, or man up and shut up. Hysterical stupidity helps no one and only serves to ruin the days of others trying to get legitimate useful information, entertainment, and community out of these forums.

I am just so sick, and tired, and angry at this stupid B.S.. I'd apologize for edition warrior ranting derailing a thread, but this was basically a troll-thread from the first sentence and has been nothing but the same FR-centric edition wars that have been around since roughly 2008. I'm going to go play Oblivion and unwind.

Nyronus Out.