D&D 4E I would rather not have 4e combat "powers" in D&D Next

[shadow]

A lot of discussion has gone around regarding the playtest fighter. I've heard a lot of people say that because the fighter is too simple and boring, 4e style "powers" should be available to the fighter (and perhaps to all classes). I respectably disagree. Encounter powers are something that should be kept out of D&D next.

First of all, I never understood the concept of encounter powers. Why can a certain martial maneuver only be used once per encounter? Does the fighter simply forget how to do it? Is it related to a surge of adrenalin that is only available for the one maneuver? This also begs the question how is an encounter measured...If a party defeats a band of kobolds only to get ambushed by reinforcements less than a five minutes later is it the same encounter? Does the fighter get to use his encounter powers again against the reinforcements? (I'm not extremely familiar with 4e, so perhaps I'm missing something.)

Also, I prefer the martial classes to have more simplicity than the wizard and cleric. Having to pick from a list of encounter powers adds a lot more bookkeeping than I would like. That's not to say that fighters and other classes should just stand there and swing. I wouldn't mind fighters getting bonuses to certain maneuvers or weapon types. I just would rather not turn every battle into tactical combat.

 

[OnlineDM]

Well, the game could have powers without having encounter powers. There are at-will and daily powers in 4e as well. Giving the fighter an option other than "melee basic attack" can be done without using encounter powers.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I just would rather not turn every battle into tactical combat.

Well, lucky for you... the tactical combat rules won't have to be used. They will be there in a expansion rules module, but you can ignore it.

 

[YRUSirius]

"I would rather not have 4e combat "powers" in D&D Next"

Yup. Don't use 'em then.

-YRUSirius

 

[fjw70]

It only they were going to build a modular game that would allow you use the parts you want and not use the parts you don't want to use then . . . oh wait they are doing that.

So what is the purpose of this thread?

 

[Ahnehnois]

Giving the fighter an option other than "melee basic attack" can be done without using encounter powers.

That's true. But it can also be done without daily and at-will powers as well.

There isn't a dichotomy between having simple, easy-to-use characters and having powers. There are other options.

4e, and to a slightly lesser extent 3e and other editions often makes the mistake of putting things in class abilities that don't belong there. Power Attack is something everyone should be able to do. Competently. So is grappling. So is dodging. A well-built system of basic combat mechanics adds innumerable opportunities for the fighter to be slightly and eventually much better than anyone else at things. Maneuvers, stunts, called shots, wounds, stances, action points...there are so many mechanics that D&D hasn't taken full advantage of that allow nonmagic characters interesting and useful choices without giving them bookkeeping-intensive, unreasonably discretized powers with weird arbitrary limitations.

 

[pemerton]

I never understood the concept of encounter powers.

They are a balance and pacing technique.

The appropriate comparison is to turn-by-turn intitiative: I assume that, in your imagination, the world of 3E D&D is not a stop-motion one. But 3E combat is stop motion in its resolution.

In both cases - encounter powers and turn-by-turn inititiative - there is not a complete correspondence between the players' decisions and actions at the gaming table and the characters' decisions and actions within the imaginary world.

Why can a certain martial maneuver only be used once per encounter? Does the fighter simply forget how to do it?

Obviously not. Just as the fighter doesn't forget how to move on the orc's turn.

Is it related to a surge of adrenalin that is only available for the one maneuver?

It may be that some people play it that way. But in my view encounter powers are best played as metagame resources that the player may exercise. Just as turn-by-turn initiative is a metagame construction intended to ration the deployment of players' resources.

This also begs the question how is an encounter measured...If a party defeats a band of kobolds only to get ambushed by reinforcements less than a five minutes later is it the same encounter? Does the fighter get to use his encounter powers again against the reinforcements? (I'm not extremely familiar with 4e, so perhaps I'm missing something.)

I think you are missing the rule that an encounter is the period between short rests.

 

[Tovec]

"I would rather not have 4e combat "powers" in D&D Next"

Yup. Don't use 'em then.

-YRUSirius

I'm not the OP so excuse me for barging in.

But if I had said, I don't like 4e's AEDU system, especially .. let's say Utility or At-Wills. Would your solution be "don't use Utility/At-Will"?

Mine would be don't play 4e if that is what you dislike. Ignoring the problem isn't going to make it better.

Now, since 5e has a chance to unno.. change things. And take feedback and use it in game design. Why NOT say you don't want powers to be part of the system? They could just as easily be tacked on like any "add it in a module" proponent seems to advocate. However, if they are part of the core design and it is something you don't like it is much harder to remove the aspect then to add it in.

 

[YRUSirius]

Why do you want to take 4E combat powers from me?

If you don't want to use them, then don't use them. Why do I have to do the same as you? Let me use 4E combat powers, you can use or not use what ever you want. Don't ruin my game.

-YRUSirius

(Btw: 4E combat power stuff will be in a module that you'll be able to add to the base game, so all this is a moot point.)

 

[Ahnehnois]

If you don't want to use them, then don't use them. Why do I have to do the same as you? Let me use 4E combat powers, you can use or not use what ever you want. Don't ruin my game.

If you want to use 4e combat powers, I believe there is a game already on the market that has them.

(Btw: 4E combat power stuff will be in a module that you'll be able to add to the base game, so all this is a moot point.)

Or just do that.

Now, since 5e has a chance to unno.. change things. And take feedback and use it in game design. Why NOT say you don't want powers to be part of the system? They could just as easily be tacked on like any "add it in a module" proponent seems to advocate. However, if they are part of the core design and it is something you don't like it is much harder to remove the aspect then to add it in.

Bears repeating.