IC justification of divine scrolls

[humble minion]

Head Cultist of Graz'zt: *death rattle, collapses to floor*
Paladin: So perish all servants of the dark powers!
Rogue: Hey, he's carrying all these scrolls. Are they magic? What do they do?
Wizard: *detect magic* Aye. This one is an vile invocation to the Six-Fingered Lord to send forth his servants to assist the caster. This one calls forth a searing blast of hellfire from the hideous depths of the Abyss. And this one allows the user to connect with the unspeakably loathsome mind of the Dark Prince himself.
Cleric: Goody! Summon Monster IV, Flame Strike, and Commune! Gimme!
Paladin: Um...

Yeah, you get the idea. There are very, very good OOC reasons for having divine spells universal, but how do you explain it in terms of a character's point of view? If (and it's admittedly a big 'if') you see spells as analogous to guaranteed-to-be-answered prayers, then a divine scroll is basically a prayer on paper. Wouldn't Brother Shinypants, Beloved of Pelor be a bit leery about casting something off a scroll scribed by a worshipper of some evil god or archdevil? For that matter, why would the evil god grant Brother Shinypants the spell anyway?

I suppose the classic explanation would be to say that once the spell has been scribed, it's effectively already been granted and cast (into the scroll) by the scriber, and the caster is just releasing it. But I find that rather unsatisfying. It removes the element of faith from divine magic if scrolls and the like are so mechanical and non-deity-related, IMHO. And in this case, if a divine scroll is just a generic, unaligned piece of magic bound to paper and waiting to be released, why can't a wizard use it?

Not particularly asking for complicated house rules and the like, but has anyone addressed this issue in-character? Or is this just one of D&D's elephants in the room, that don't really bear overly close scrutiny?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Given how, in real life, enemy religions have had elements appropriated by multiple faiths and recast in their own paradigm, I would assume the same thing would happen in D&D.

"These heathen scum have totally debased the Prayer of the Guardians of the Path! Let's just cross that disgusting illumination out there and properly thank our Lord of the Endless Road and ... voila!"

 

[Quartz]

I think it would be very cool to have the spells as the wizard in your example described them and would go some way to balancing the power of the cleric. Such scrolls would detect as their appropriate alignments. PCs already know better than to use other evil items. That Commune would be tied to Grazzt, and if the good cleric were to use it, the consequences might be dire indeed.

I suppose in general, using a scroll from a deity of the same pantheon would be acceptable, but you could have fun: consider a cleric whose patron is Zeus using a scroll scribed by a cleric whose patron is Hera when Zeus and Hera are having one of their tiffs! And a male using a scroll from Artemis would be just asking for it!

Scrolls could be converted by using the redeeming of magic items rules in the BoED. Or you could simply codify what Whizbang said by saying that it requires the Scribe Scroll feat and 1/2 XP.

 

[DragonLancer]

I had a similar question raised last session with regards to clerical wands (one of cure mod in this case). In the end we agreed that though the spell is inscribed on the scroll or wand, when the energy is released the flow of power comes from the faith (and therefore divinity) of the caster/user, not the creator.

 

[GreatLemur]

I suppose the classic explanation would be to say that once the spell has been scribed, it's effectively already been granted and cast (into the scroll) by the scriber, and the caster is just releasing it. But I find that rather unsatisfying. It removes the element of faith from divine magic if scrolls and the like are so mechanical and non-deity-related, IMHO. And in this case, if a divine scroll is just a generic, unaligned piece of magic bound to paper and waiting to be released, why can't a wizard use it?

Yeah, inter-faith compatibility issues aside, this is why I have trouble buying the whole divine scrolls thing. The whole idea of divine power being expressed as spells always struck me as silly, anyway. Anything than skews the Cleric's flavor even further away from the idea of them praying for boons and miracles from a deity (as opposed to wielding magical power of their own) strikes me as a bad idea.

Still, I guess you can justify it by saying that the "spells"--whether they're the ones the divine caster prepares, casts from scrolls, or casts from wands--aren't actually doing the healing and blasting and buffing themselves, so much as allowing the caster to connect with the power of the deity, so that he or she can serve as a conduit for the deity's miracles.

It's a hell of a klugey justification, though, I admit.

 

[pawsplay]

I just treat divine magic as being a magical method along the lines of wizardry. The general principles, embodied in the skills of the clerical class, have been cross-pollinated for centuries. I.e. domain spells might still be out of reach, but otherwise...

Just cross out Vile Lord of Slime and Darkness and write Shining Lord of Righteousness, and you're good. Heck, maybe clerics don't want laymen to know that divine scrolls are all identical, except for the stationary print at the top ("Temple of Shining Heironeous, 55 Main St, City of Greyhawk").

 

[el-remmen]

Since I allow clerics to cast cleric spells that are not on their own lists, I always play up the possible ramifications of using a scroll (or other spell-completion item) created from an evil source.

Casting a commune scroll picked up from an evil priest? Guess who those answers are coming from. . . Can they be trusted?

 

[Arkhandus]

Wouldn't Brother Shinypants, Beloved of Pelor be a bit leery about casting something off a scroll scribed by a worshipper of some evil god or archdevil? For that matter, why would the evil god grant Brother Shinypants the spell anyway?

Dude, now I wanna play a cleric of Pelor named Brother Shinypants.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Here's how I do cleric scrolls:

1. They're written in the vernacular, so if you know the language (usually Common), you can read them and know what they are. They take the form of prayers/invocations directed at a god/divine power/etc.

2. Only clerical spellcasters (e.g. Clerics, Druids) can actually activate the spells.

So in my games, the source of the scroll matters, and the spells on it are charged with power from the associated deity/force/whatever; it's not just a generic spell/prayer with a "fill in the blank" clause. So if you find a scroll created by a cleric of an evil god, you shouldn't use it unless you are willing to invoke the prayers/powers from that source. You really shouldn't sell it, either.

However, to keep evil cleric scrolls from being completely useless as treasure, I also will grant magic item XP to good PCs that destroy such scrolls.

 

[Kesh]

Two words: Archivist class. (From Heroes of Horror)

I consider clerics to be drawing spells from their own faith. Those who worship a particular deity may be receiving divine inspiration, or they may simply be using their faith to gather the magic to themselves.

An archivist studies the formulae behind how magic works, same as a wizard; the difference is, they couch it in divine terms, rather than arcane. Spellbooks are simply a way of documenting how that magic is gathered and converted into a spell. Scrolls are like loading an arrow into a bow: the magic is already gathered and prepared, simply requiring a trigger to activate & direct it.

If using HoH, I'd consider scrolls from an evil source possibly causing Taint when used, just to remind the cleric where they're receiving that magic from. Aside from that, I have no problems with divine spells being scribed into scrolls.

In one of my campaigns, I intend to introduce some new divine spells through scrolls. They exist because they were granted by a diety that was killed by other gods, who themselves never grant the spell to their followers. However, those followers can use the scrolls, and Archivists could learn the spells to continue their use. Clerics not tied to a specific deity could add it to their known spells, and a cleric could petition their deity to grand themselves & other faithful access to it.

Yeah, I have a thing for ancient knowledge.