ICE and the ENnies

[eyebeams]

Except that the system /did/ follow its own rules and categories. Those rules and categories are established every year by the judges. Regardless of bias or perception, I just don't understand how you can say that the guidelines were circumvented (your words) when the guidelines were followed to the letter.

Yes. The judges fudged their own rules.

It's like saying that Rome could only be nominated for Best Mini-Series or Best Historical Drama. If it's both, why can't it compete in both?

Because we'e not talking about a TV show. We're talking about substantial differences in content (like dozens of pages of adventure material as the dominant content of the book) between the eventual winner and every competitor in the category.

How is this not accountable? If the people voting on the ENnies (you know, the fans of the games) did not consider Shackled City a better product than the others in those categories, it would have won. I don't see a lack of accountability - It's not like Lisa and Erik flew over to England and offered Russ a hundred dollars if he'd allow SCAP into multiple categories.

D'you really think that brand recognition did not factor into affairs at all?

Have you been reading the policies? If someone wants to be a judge, they self-nominate themselves. They are then voted on by anyone who cares about selecting the judges for the ENnies. Not members of ENWorld. Not Russ. Not Denise. The voters are everyone who cares to vote.

As Tim pointed out, activity is centered on this site. It is disingenuous to claim that this has no effect on selection. In a beter-working system, this would have checks and balances to prevent a system of near acclaim. Believe it or not, in real organizations, no-contests are a sign of *failing* accountability.

If the group of judges tends to have certain familiar faces, is it because of some behind-the-scenes dealing, or because those judges a) apply for the position, b) have done a good job in the position, and c) are voted to rejoin the judges the following year?

No, it is not a conspiratorial strawman As I have repeatedly said it isn't, why don't you put that one to bed? The reason is because there are poor controls on judge selection that tend to a certain sameness in selections.

How can you get more populist than a self-nominating, anyone-who-wants-to-regardless-of-any-other-criteria-can-vote-on-the-nominees system?

By having a system that weeds out acclaim and leapfrog candidates.

 

[eyebeams]

Eyebeams, you are clearly interested in improving the ENnies; if you didn't, you would be wasting your time debating this. Why don't you apply to be a judge?

I would be happy to second your nomination.

Because I have an active financial interest in the hobby. I'd like the fan award to be an actual fan award.

 

[eyebeams]

Yes. Of course I have! One thing is absolutely clear. The ENnies, financially, are a net loss, of a significant size. As we expand and make more effort, that loss increases.

That's just the finances, not counting the countless man-hours.

Yet they continue.

I'm not talking about the profitability of the ENnies, though. They naturally don't make any money.

 

[Raven Crowking]

um... who???? i've never published anything for anybody in any industry.

my writing credits are limited to my work at CDC.

Davey "diaglo in disguise" Jones

Loved your work in Pirates of the Carribean II, BTW.

 

[eyebeams]

um... who???? i've never published anything for anybody in any industry.

my writing credits are limited to my work at CDC.

Davey "diaglo in disguise" Jones

Remember that this was in reference to Billd91, who said that there shouldn't necessarily be industry restrictions. If you had a significant number of active industry people you'f get problems like this. For to OAs, the size of the Academy is supposed to take care of this. Then again, I have no idea how big it is now.

 

[DaveyJones]

D'you really think that brand recognition did not factor into affairs at all?

it didn't with me.

edited: i'm sorry if you feel threatened. but don't call me a liar

 

[eyebeams]

it didn't with me.

if you wish to say otherwise, i'm gonna tell you where i'm gonna stick my foot for calling me a liar

You weren't all of last year's voters, were you?

 

[Morrus]

I'm not talking about the profitability of the ENnies, though. They naturally don't make any money.

Well, you'll need to be a bit clearer then, because if by "running the numbers" you weren't talking about the financial side-effects of a "promotional tool" I don't understand what you're getting at?

 

[Morrus]

Incidentally, we're thinking of adding the Rasyr Award for the person who does the most work promoting the ENnies and raising their exposure on multiple messageboards each year. We'd collectively like to thank Rasyr for his tireless efforts, which have exceeded even those of the people whose job it is to publicise the ENnies!

It's kinda funny. We have three groups (aside from ENnies people):

1) A tiny number of industry people who are VERY VOCAL about how they want the ENnies changed.

2) A similar sized group of industry notables (such as Monte, Mearls, etc.) who support the ENnies and frequently state that it is vital that Group 1 does not get to influence the awards.

3) A boatload of fans who agree with the ENnies people, with one or two exceptions.

As is always the case with the internet, the vocal minority is always very much a tiny minority, and is always very vocal.

It's pretty much the same every year (Group 1 varies - we sometimes bet on who it'll be each year) - I dread it each year, because this period isn't fun.

 

[DaveyJones]

You weren't all of last year's voters, were you?

nope. but don't lob insults in the general area and not expect me to react. i did a lot of work. i spent a lot of time on this. and i took time off work. my own vacation time.

i wanted to see why things were the way they were firsthand. i got the full experience.

i even got to get up infront of those who despise me for my hat of d02 and present an award.

i'm telling you. if you want to knock the system that is your right. but don't throw insults around without expecting some reaction. even from me.

the system worked last year.