Ice Archon

[HeinorNY]

Dude, on teh intarwebs there's no such thing.

LOL. I meant it was my last point. Magical explanation always win

 

[FourthBear]

Yeah, but then you come up against the problem that white dragons are not immune to the "much more potent source of cold" that it weilds, and that red dragons can get their butts singed by their own "blazing rages."

Well, back in the fire immunity for red dragons thread, I think we had a long discussion on this subject. I think there are many ways to easily justify a creature with an attack that is capable of harming it. After all, many fantasy stories involve opponents that can be harmed if their own attacks are turned against them. I think it's a pretty naive assumption that simply because a dragon can breathe a fire attack that does 100 points of damage, that it must have 100 points of fire resistance. You could probably come up with a dozen explanations off the top of your head.

Secondarily, even if we do make this assumption, I believe that resistances are the preferred way to go. If a dragon can do 100 points of fire damage, I don't see why it needs utter immunity, even under the simplest of assumptions. It just needs 100 points of fire resistance. The trouble with immunity is that it is too binary. Once you give something blanket immunity, you've tossed away your adjustment dial for an on-off switch. Our wyrmling CR1 red dragon can withstand the mightiest fires created by the God of Fire himself, the heart of the sun, the white-hot flames at the center of creation. And not just withstand them, utterly ignore them as insignificant once you've declared it Immune to Fire. I think it would be much better to avoid immunities whenever possible and give out sufficient resistances for design purposes.

 

[Thaumaturge]

LOL. I meant it was my last point.

But you were wrong. This was your last post. Until your next post, that is.

Thaumaturge.

 

[HeinorNY]

But you were wrong. This was your last post. Until your next post, that is.

Thaumaturge.

Last point, not post.
BUt you are right, I should be gone!

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I think there are many ways to easily justify a creature with an attack that is capable of harming it. After all, many fantasy stories involve opponents that can be harmed if their own attacks are turned against them.

That depends on if you're attempting to emulate those stories.

The trouble with immunity is that it is too binary. Once you give something blanket immunity, you've tossed away your adjustment dial for an on-off switch.

And? So long as you don't give any one creature too many energy immunities it's fine. Immune to Fire use Acid, immune to Cold use Sonic.

Our wyrmling CR1 red dragon can withstand the mightiest fires created by the God of Fire himself, the heart of the sun, the white-hot flames at the center of creation. And not just withstand them, utterly ignore them as insignificant once you've declared it Immune to Fire.

All depends on what you're trying to emulate, I like immunities. I showcases the truly fantastic nature of certain creatures. That some things are so closely tied to an element that it's home to them. If the God of Fire wants to hurt them even he has to use another method because Fire is such a part of them it might as well be a warm bath.

 

[FourthBear]

That depends on if you're attempting to emulate those stories.

Yes, it does depend on what you're attempting to emulate with your design choices. The 4e design team has chosen to give Ice Archons and red dragons resistances instead of immunities. I think this is a very good design decision and approve of it. If you wish to have such creature have complete immunity, you can house-rule in immunities for such creatures, just as I would have to house-rule away such immunities if the 4e design team decided that immunities should be common.

 

[HP Dreadnought]

Modifiers (such as resistances) are always better game design than absolutes.

I'm guessing that elemental resistance, and damage, will be much lower in 4E, such that Res 30 constitutes near immunity anyway.

 

[Wolfspider]

It's living cold created by chilling magic, which means even more powerful chilling magic can hurt it.
Case closed.

*reaches over and opens back up the case*

Nuh uh!

 

[Wolfspider]

Can you imagine a creature made out of living water drowning?

I can't. It seems silly to me.

I have the same kinds of problems thinking of a creature creating from living fire being burned or living ice been frozen.

But it's ok. It's very easy, if I do adopt 4e, to simple save my Wand of Ultimate Dungeon Master Power and make them immune to whatever element I consider appropriate.

Of course, then it throws the Sacred Math of the system out of joint, and everything falls apart with a mighty thud.

 

[LEHaskell]

I have the same kinds of problems thinking of a creature creating from living fire being burned or living ice been frozen.

But a Fire Archon isn't JUST fire -- there are magical energies holding it together and those energies, while resistant to mundane fires, can be burned away by the overwhelming power of Great Wyrms or the Elemental Fire itself. Burn away that which binds and holds the elemental form together and the Archon becomes just another fire; lacking fuel it ceases to exist.