Ice Archon

Wolfspider said:
Why would that happen to the ice archon? It's made out of living, magical ice imbued with life. How does the embodiment of cold freeze?

Why wouldn't the ice archon instead come striding through the vapors and sleet relentlessly, like the Terminator, with a look of worry crossing the dragon's face for the first time in centuries....

I can imagine with any serious cold attack, like this breath weapon, mass condensation would freeze all over the archon and slow it down. Damage though, well, it would have to have some other component, like ethylene glycol blood, which I can see freezing with enough cold.
 

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The_Fan said:
I don't care about reality, as long as I can picture it in a dramatic way I'm fine with it.

Hrm...

Let's say the archon is advancing towards a white dragon, weapon in hand, ready to strike, and the beast breathes a blast of swirling, blue-white vapors, with a gale-force wind...its movements slow against the wind. Ice forms on it...it tries to press forward, but the ice cracks...and the cracks go all the way through. As its legs give out it falls to the ground like the T-1000 and shatters.
Or the Ice Archon is suddenly encased in frozen air, unable to move...
Since he isn't dead yet, the ice will eventually break, but this weakens him - until the point where he just hasn't the strength anymore, and, after a few cone of colds, he is just frozen in place, forever.

Alternatively (what works for both Fire and Ice Archons): They are just swept away - their body combines with the "element" and the magical bond that keeps the Archon together (and moving) is broken.

On a physical/scientific level, all temperature is movement (usually on a very small scale, like from molecules and atoms).
A Fire Elemental/Archon has a finite temperature, which means there is a higher temperature. To be able to move in the way a Elemental does (he doesn't need a "fuel line" to move), something must keep him together. If something manages to "add" heat to the elementals temperature it is possible that this bonding force is overwhelmed, ripping the Elemental apart. The rips may be filled with other fire, but this fire is not part of the Elemental, and it works as well as cutting a human in pieces and trying to "repair" him by putting flesh in the resulting holes (which means it can work, but not on a "big" scale.

A Ice Elemental/Archon has a low temperature. But if he was at 0 K, he couldn't move (especially not in the way he probably does. Quantum Effects might still allow a little bit of movement, since he can't stay at 0 K anyway.). There is force at work that keeps him cold, but also not too cold. If you can get him cold enough, the force that stabilizes his temperature can fail. It's as if you would cut off the blood supply of living cells. If done shortly enough, it can be repaired, but if it's to long, the cells die. If enough cells die, the Ice Archon dies...

So, is that enough physics in your magical creatures? :)
 

Think of it as humans with water. We're made up of...what, 60-70% of the stuff?
We dont get enough water in our system, we die from dehydration.
We get TO much water in our system, we die from water poisoning. (It's a real condition, and it IS fatal)

Replace Human with Ice Archon, and Water with 'Cold'. The cold's not killing it directly, it's throwing its 'chemistry' out of whack.
 

D.Shaffer said:
Think of it as humans with water. We're made up of...what, 60-70% of the stuff?
We dont get enough water in our system, we die from dehydration.
We get TO much water in our system, we die from water poisoning. (It's a real condition, and it IS fatal)

Except that non of that is a water attack in D&D terms.
 

Derren said:
Except that non of that is a water attack in D&D terms.
:rolleyes: Nevermind the point that you seem to be ignoring the fact it's an analogy and not meant to be taken entirely 1 on 1...We have 'Dessication' damage in Sandstorm (3rd ed) as is. As dessication is essentially the removal of water, you could, if you really wanted to, feasibly come up with something the opposite of this, forcibly adding water to someone's system. Both are, essentially, 'water' attacks.

However, that is entirely besides the point that I, and several others are trying to make. It's not the actual energy by itself that's causing the damage, it's the disruption of its normal 'balance' that's doing it. In a similar vein...

Cold blooded creatures need heat from an outside source to survive. Not enough heat? They die. To much heat? They die.

Plants need a certain amount of sunlight to survive. To much sunlight? They die. Not enough? They die.

Fish need to swim in water with the right mix of salt in it to survive. To much salt in the water? They die. Not enough salt in the water? They die.

To complete the analogy...in a similar way Archons need a certain amount of 'Cold' to survive. If they dont get enough of it, they die. If they get TO much of it, they die.
 

I don't actually see anything in those stats that actually implies that the Ice Archon is made of Ice. His Type is humanoid.

After all, a Silver Dragon is not made of silver, nor is a Frost Giant made of Frost.
 

Kid Charlemagne said:
I don't actually see anything in those stats that actually implies that the Ice Archon is made of Ice. His Type is humanoid.

After all, a Silver Dragon is not made of silver, nor is a Frost Giant made of Frost.

The "Ecology of the Fire Archon" article from the digital Dragon described fire archons as being "Living flames forged by blazing magic."

I don't think that it's too much of a reach to imagine that Ice Archons would be "Living ice shaped by chilling magic."
 

FourthBear said:
You could justify an Ice Archon as utterly immune to cold. You could justify an Ice Archon as not utterly immune to cold. It appears 4e is going with the latter. Wouldn't it be cool if the Ice Archon swaggered up to the dragon, confident in its cold resistance, only to be cracked and destroyed by the dragon's freezing breath, a much more potent source of cold than its own? Or a fire elemental having cringe back from the King of Fire's blazing rages, which are too much for even *its* firey nature? If you slap immunities around too much, I think you lose just as much potential fun.

Yeah, but then you come up against the problem that white dragons are not immune to the "much more potent source of cold" that it weilds, and that red dragons can get their butts singed by their own "blazing rages."

Yeah, I guess there's always something hotter or something colder. I can see that. I still think this is an awkward way of handling elemental resistance.

By the way, you used the word "cool" in your post.

Please report immediately to the Ministry of Love.
 



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