Icon relationship dice

[plancktum]

Hi,

Yesterday I've mastered my first 13th Age session and I like the system very much But there is one thing which makes me not happy: The icon relationships.
If I understand correctly the system wants my players to roll for all of their icons the relationship dice and looks for 5's and 6's. And then I have to build them into the story...
Yeah... I think this is good for improvising sessions or to get inspiration for plots, but if I have Plotideas this is just annoying... Do you think I can completely igonore this system and just use the relationships as a guideline how the icons stand to the characters?
I know that this icon system is one main thing of the 13th age system, but it does not fit my playstyle as a GM very well.

So I thought I will use it more freely and not that strictly as mentioned in the rulebook. Maybe this system is intended in this way?

best regards

 

[JeffB]

I am planning on ignoring it. Not that I do not like it, but I am in process of converting over my Forgotten Realms game, and it would feel out of place. In addition, I also feel it has its place part time, but not as something I would use all the time.

I would use the ICONs in a liimited capacity once I started up a new game. I would like to do so for a Wilderlands game. I think it would be a great fit there.

 

[Balesir]

I think a part of the idea with Icons is to question the whole concept of having a plot in mind before play starts, but if you want to just ignore them I don't see why you couldn't.

An alternative - a sort of "half-way house", if you like - might be to let them be used to gain re-rolls or maybe even extra actions with a justification based on the appropriate Icon. Re-rolls taken for a "5" could allow the GM to demand a re-roll in reply later in the session...

 

[Dungeoneer]

Hi,

Yesterday I've mastered my first 13th Age session and I like the system very much But there is one thing which makes me not happy: The icon relationships.
If I understand correctly the system wants my players to roll for all of their icons the relationship dice and looks for 5's and 6's. And then I have to build them into the story...
Yeah... I think this is good for improvising sessions or to get inspiration for plots, but if I have Plotideas this is just annoying... Do you think I can completely igonore this system and just use the relationships as a guideline how the icons stand to the characters?
I know that this icon system is one main thing of the 13th age system, but it does not fit my playstyle as a GM very well.

So I thought I will use it more freely and not that strictly as mentioned in the rulebook. Maybe this system is intended in this way?

best regards

I think you can certainly use the system sans Icon Relationships. The only thing you need to watch out for is PCs that have talents that allow them to get extra Icon dice. You don't want those talents to suddenly become useless. Either ask the players to select different talents or modify the existing talents so they confer benefits other than icon dice.

 

[heretic888]

In my 13th Age games, I treat Icon Relationships as the equivalent of once-per-session Fate Points that the players can invoke at any time during the session. These are also d20-based instead of d6-based. Here's my house rules:

Once per session, you can invoke each of your Icon Relationships to either gain an advantage or make a narrative declaration.

- Gain an Advantage: If your Icon Relationship is related to the current situation somehow, you can gain an advantage on one attack roll or ability check. Roll an *additional* number of d20s equal to your points in the Icon Relationship and choose whichever result you like. However, if you succeed and any of your d20s is an odd number, you suffer a complication.
Example: Derek the Barbarian is fighting a powerful demon and points out he has encountered this demon before during his military campaigns with the Crusader. He rolls two additional d20s on his attack roll (for a 2-point relationship) but one of them is odd. This enables him to land the finishing blow against the demon, but the GM declares the demon managed to reopen an old wound on Derek, attracting other demons to his location.

- Make a Declaration: You can use your Icon Relationship to make a narrative declaration during a scene. Roll a number of d20s equal to your points in the relationship. If any of them is an 11+, you can make a declaration in the scene. However, if you succeed and any of the d20s is an odd number, your declaration comes with a complication.
Example: Jimmy the Rogue encounters some guards barring his entrance to the local thieves' guild. He uses his relationship with the Emperor to declare that he served with one of the guards during the war. However, one of his d20s was an odd so the GM states that Jimmy still owes his old war buddy 25 silver from a card game he lost.

Note that I still ask for players to make Icon Relationship rolls from time to time for story guidance . Its just not something we're required to do at the start of every session.

 

[WhatGravitas]

There are several ways to spin it:

• First of all, embrace the improvisation but don't feel forced by it. If you use the icons, just build in smaller flavour elements - perhaps an opponent or two are tainted by the lower planes after rolling 5s for the Diabolist - but you find an useful magic item on them. It doesn't need to shape the plot, it can colour it.
• Roll at the end of the session, meaning you can use the rolls to prepare for the next session, then use that to inform your plotting. Unless you pre-plot adventures several sessions in advance, that allows you weave them into the plot without having to improvise (mix-and-match with the point above).
• Record the rolls and tell the players that they can effectively call in favours from the icons... if they manage to contact them. That's a springboard for interesting mini-adventures, too.
• Use them as relationship indicators... roll them when the players try to call in a favour, request things and so forth.

Of course, it's possible to mix all of them. One thing I've seen repeated in the 13th Age Google+ community is: the icon rolls should serve as tool, not become a constraint, i.e. (if the players are happy with it), ignore rolls that don't fit the story, don't force every 5 and 6 into your plot. Instead use them as indicator for things that could happen and plan your adventures accordingly (i.e. leave a loose end or two that you can spontaneously change, a bit like the example adventure in the back).

 

[plancktum]

Thanks for your input!

I will definitely roll at the end of the session, but maybe not at the end of each session. So I have enough time to build in the Icon relationships.
This will work fine for my regular group.
But I have another group which does not play regulary and in which the players fluctuate. There are some players who are always there but other players come and go
So... We'll see how I can handle the rolls at the start of the session.

best regards

 

[Jhaelen]

r improvising sessions or to get inspiration for plots, but if I have Plotideas this is just annoying...

I think the question is: why do you have plot ideas that aren't related in any way to the (player character's) icons?

Imho, if you intend to use the icons at all, they should be central to most of your stories. And if you can't think of a good way to include an icon relationship in a session, perhaps the player does?
IIRC, the core book also gives examples of using flashbacks to explain benefits gained from icon relationship roles. I.e. you don't have to resolve all of them with events in the current adventure.