D&D 5E I'd like to see Next do away with racial stat mods for PC races.

[Incenjucar]

Actually, I'm more likely to pick the class-race combo that appeals to me conceptually, and min-maxing be damned.

Moreover, I actively, strongly, do not want every pc I play to have an 18 (or even a 15) in his prime stat. That's boring. The practically-required nature of high stats in 4e is one of its big flaws, IMHO.

I agree wholeheartedly. The issue is far less about race than it is about stats being tied to your to-hit, defenses, and other must-have modifiers, particularly since raising one score could make raising another score a wasteful choice. While it would upset many traditionalists, I would like to see ability scores made universally-beneficial to all characters regardless of class, such that "dump stats" become a real sacrifice rather than an obvious choice.

 

[the Jester]

The issue is far less about race than it is about stats being tied to your to-hit, defenses, and other must-have modifiers, particularly since raising one score could make raising another score a wasteful choice.

Yeah, I absolutely agree with this.

While it would upset many traditionalists, I would like to see ability scores made universally-beneficial to all characters regardless of class, such that "dump stats" become a real sacrifice rather than an obvious choice.

Me too! I would love to see everyone get meaningful benefits- and penalties- for a high (or low) charisma, for instance. (Henchmen?)

 

[Dunnagin]

I see this a lot on message boards... i.e "I want to change this one rule".

Some rules are easy to change, others are built into the overall design (think "jenga").

Would I like to see a simpler or more balanced version of this rule, or many other rules, in D&D?... absolutely yes!

Have I seen alternative that are simpler and more balanced?... No, not to date.

I've heard preferences that partially take in overall design concerns... but in order to create a solution to a problem like this you would need to re-design a whole section of the game.

Questions like this is where "fantasy heartbreakers" are born (which is not a bad thing... show me the alternatives!)

 

[The Human Target]

I see this a lot on message boards... i.e "I want to change this one rule".

Some rules are easy to change, others are built into the overall design (think "jenga").

Would I like to see a simpler or more balanced version of this rule, or many other rules, in D&D?... absolutely yes!

Have I seen alternative that are simpler and more balanced?... No, not to date.

I've heard preferences that partially take in overall design concerns... but in order to create a solution to a problem like this you would need to re-design a whole section of the game.

Questions like this is where "fantasy heartbreakers" are born (which is not a bad thing... show me the alternatives!)

People have made several suggestions in this thread.

 

[Dunnagin]

People have made several suggestions in this thread.

Nevermind

EDIT
By "Nevermind" I mean, you are 100% correct.

I think I was overtired and went on a mini tirade here.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I would like to see racial modifiers go away as well. I'm tired of the whole "You're a wizard and you're not a human or elf? You're an idiot!" mentality. Besides, the whole point of giving races ability modifiers was to set them apart from humans, both in their strengths and weaknesses. But now, not only have that gotten rid of racial penalties, humans now get bonuses as well, allowing them to be just as graceful as any elf can be, as tough as any dwarf, or as clever as any gnome. I just don't see any point in having them anymore. I can't think of a single thing that they add to the game, but I can think of several things that they take away from it, such as encouraging min-maxing. That's usually a good indication that it's time for a rule to go.

 

[The Human Target]

Nevermind

EDIT
By "Nevermind" I mean, you are 100% correct.

I think I was overtired and went on a mini tirade here.

I read your original post and it was no tirade at all! Don't sweat it.

 

[jeckyllgeek]

Actually, I'm more likely to pick the class-race combo that appeals to me conceptually, and min-maxing be damned.

Moreover, I actively, strongly, do not want every pc I play to have an 18 (or even a 15) in his prime stat. That's boring. The practically-required nature of high stats in 4e is one of its big flaws, IMHO.

The only way to accomplish this without saddling players with crappy characters is to figure out a way to make more than one stat important for a class. When your classes forte is tied to a single stat that is what any player with mechanics sense or at least not beholden to stormwind falacy will put all their effort into.

 

[Incenjucar]

The only way to accomplish this without saddling players with crappy characters is to figure out a way to make more than one stat important for a class. When your classes forte is tied to a single stat that is what any player with mechanics sense or at least not beholden to stormwind falacy will put all their effort into.

There's no real requirement that stats be required for a class, period.

If stats were basically perks instead of requirements, such that you could have viable if sub-par characters with six 10s (making NPCs super easy to work with), you could give your character any stats you want and still be viable.

You would have to:

* Make every stat equally useful to a well-rounded character of any class (specialist characters can still gain by specializing).
* Make every class able to effectively utilize every stat (wizards would need VIABLE melee attacks, etc.)
* Make every bump in a stat useful (if 12 is no better than a 10 nobody will have a 12)
* Make every bump in a stat equal to a bump in another stat
* Remove ability scores from to-hit and defense values. Those need to be baked in elsewhere.
* Level out accuracy. Every class should be able to hit with any ability they can access. A wizard whacking someone with a staff may do relatively paltry damage, but they should be able to hit reliably hit so they can utilize Strength.

Just as a 1:30am no-effort example:
"Bump" defined: The point in an ability score increase where you actually gain something from it.

Strength: +1/bump to melee damage
Dexterity: +1/bump to ranged damage
Constitution: +1/bump to HP
Intelligence: +1/bump to area damage
Wisdom: +1/bump to minimum roll on Skill Checks (Wisdom 12 means your lowest skill check roll is 2, etc)
Charisma: +1/bump to HP healed (Wisdom 12 means you get healed for 11 instead of 10, etc)

Obviously the above is not likely going to work for D&D, and a strict +X*bump structure is not the only way to go, but as a general notion, I hope that gets the idea across. You also don't have to make the stats mean the same thing for every class, but making a unique series for each class can get complicated as heck.

 

[Ratskinner]

What about assigning each class a particular stat so that your halfling, dwarf, elf, or half-orc wizard can have an 18 intelligence?

Or...maybe unbind the ability scores from the class abilities, or get rid of them entirely. That is, instead of having Strength, which is good for combat, so a Fighter must have it, but Halflings should...etc. etc. Just give fighter types a "Bend Bars/Lift Gates" ability. You could let 13th Age style backgrounds fill in the rest of the "shading" between various characters.

...not that I think 5e is going this way.