Idea to improve defender abilities

[Fifth Element]

I'm not a big fan of the knight abilities from PHB2 (too much like mind control to some of my players), while at the same time realizing that the defender role is hard to do in 3.5, given the cyclical initiative.

I had a thought about a certain situation, and I apologize if this has been covered before but I would appreciate comments. I'm thinking of a situation where a squishy wizard is behind a line of a couple of fighters, but the fighters roll crappy for initiative. Fast-moving opponents who roll well on initiative are free to charge past the fighters and smash the squishy wizard in the first round. Since the fighters are flat-footed, they cannot even make attacks of opportunity as the opponents waltz by.

My idea is to (1) allow flat-footed character to makes attacks of opportunity triggered by movement, and (2) when you are struck by an attack of opportunity that was triggered by your movement, you must end your movement in the square you were moving into when you triggered the attack. This represents the attacker hindering your movement and forcing you to defend yourself. If you have any actions left for the round you are free to then use them.

This would allow front-line fighters to attack the opponents trying to slip by, and possibly prevent them from making an end-run around the first line of defence to brench the mage.

Thoughts? What are some of the implications I'm not considering?

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Iron Heroes' Armiger, with Combat Magnet, lets you keep enemies off your squishy friends. Giving that to fighters, in the form of feat(s) would serve quite well.

 

[Fifth Element]

Iron Heroes' Armiger, with Combat Magnet, lets you keep enemies off your squishy friends. Giving that to fighters, in the form of feat(s) would serve quite well.

Indeed, but I think it suffers from the same flavour problem as my example above. Why is the attack resolved against the armiger rather than the mage?

I'd also like this to apply to all characters in a defensive position, rather than fighters only.

 

[Phlebas]

My idea is to (1) allow flat-footed character to makes attacks of opportunity triggered by movement

If you just allow AoO's when flat-footed you tend to negate a lot of the surprise advantage, and IMHO surprise or lack of surprise due to good OR BAD scouting makes for a more interesting / varied combat.

Personally i'd be tempted to house rule that if you provoke more than one AoO through movement (ie you try going through two threatened squares) the character gets the AoO even when FF. this gives an advantage to surprise, but not free rein to ignore a mob of fighters.

(2) when you are struck by an attack of opportunity that was triggered by your movement, you must end your movement in the square you were moving into when you triggered the attack. This represents the attacker hindering your movement and forcing you to defend yourself. If you have any actions left for the round you are free to then use them.

This seems remarkably powerful for pinning defenders in place - in your example above the squishy wizard wouldn't be able to run away once surrounded. I think this is too powerful as a straight rule

Either
A - make it a new feat- "Knockdown blow" : - if you hit with an AoO you restrict further movement
B - Allow an AoO to start a grapple or a trip (also helps when defender hasn't got weapons drawn).
you can either give this for free, as a stand alone feat, or as an additional benefit to improved grapple or improved trip which would definitely make these intersting (but rarely taken feats) more useful

Other issue i see is that on the first round its quite likely that weapons won't be drawn (unless your DM allows you to wander around weapon at the ready) so you'll be doing slam attack with a shield, unarmed or trying to stab with an arrow so that makes me tempted to go with the grapple / trip option as a way of trying to prevent the attacker breaking through the line - it makes it a valid tactic, but more difficult to achieve

So the party make their way through the forest when suddenly two dire wolves erupt from the side - ignoring Thomas the tank in armour and roger the ranger, the wolves spot Clarissa the cloistered cleric huddlng in the background and attempt a smash and grab. The first one is caught by Thomas's shield bash and then tripped by Sid the scout before reaching clarissa, the second gets too close to Roger the ranger who drops his bow and rugby tackles the wolf gaining a grapple and bringing It crashing to a halt. surprise round over, round 1. Roger is finding the wolfs natural weapons a pain in a grapple, but prevents it joining in the attack on clarissa, Sid attacks the prone wolf before it gets up and avoids the attack before thomas spins around drawing his longsword, flanks the wolf attacking Sid and manages to decapitate it in two blows. Sid & Thomas then can move to try and haul the other wolf off Roger before the ranger gets eaten. Luckily Clarissa is unharmed and can heal rogers wounds (wasn't he brave!)

 

[Nifft]

A - make it a new feat- "Knockdown blow" : - if you hit with an AoO you restrict further movement

Psst!

Cheers, -- N

 

[Phlebas]

Psst!

Cheers, -- N

or we could do it that way

 

[Fifth Element]

Psst!

Cheers, -- N

Of course, we still need a rule change for that to work in my specific example since it's only for attacks of opportunity, and I'm looking at a situation with flat-footed defenders.

 

[Fifth Element]

B - Allow an AoO to start a grapple or a trip (also helps when defender hasn't got weapons drawn).
you can either give this for free, as a stand alone feat, or as an additional benefit to improved grapple or improved trip which would definitely make these intersting (but rarely taken feats) more useful

Other issue i see is that on the first round its quite likely that weapons won't be drawn (unless your DM allows you to wander around weapon at the ready) so you'll be doing slam attack with a shield, unarmed or trying to stab with an arrow so that makes me tempted to go with the grapple / trip option as a way of trying to prevent the attacker breaking through the line - it makes it a valid tactic, but more difficult to achieve

So the party make their way through the forest when suddenly two dire wolves erupt from the side - ignoring Thomas the tank in armour and roger the ranger, the wolves spot Clarissa the cloistered cleric huddlng in the background and attempt a smash and grab. The first one is caught by Thomas's shield bash and then tripped by Sid the scout before reaching clarissa, the second gets too close to Roger the ranger who drops his bow and rugby tackles the wolf gaining a grapple and bringing It crashing to a halt. surprise round over, round 1. Roger is finding the wolfs natural weapons a pain in a grapple, but prevents it joining in the attack on clarissa, Sid attacks the prone wolf before it gets up and avoids the attack before thomas spins around drawing his longsword, flanks the wolf attacking Sid and manages to decapitate it in two blows. Sid & Thomas then can move to try and haul the other wolf off Roger before the ranger gets eaten. Luckily Clarissa is unharmed and can heal rogers wounds (wasn't he brave!)

I like where you're going with the grapple idea. It matches the flavour of the situation well: attackers try to charge past the front line before they're ready to react, defenders try to grab on at the last second, unable to get weapons drawn in time. So perhaps I could allow AoOs in that situation, but only if they're used to start a grapple? Certainly makes it a less powerful option in general, but helps with the specific situation. Thanks!

 

[Phlebas]

Another option - one thing i house rule is that if the party is approaching a specific situation cautiously, weapons drawn, i tend to rule that they are not flat-footed when combat starts as it doesn't seem to make sense.

so in this case a party carefully opening a door that they've heard strange noises behind wouldn't be flat footed when a horde of wratihs billowed out, however they would be flat-footed if the same attack occured if they were walking through a town, or hiking through the wilderness.

If in doubt, they're flat-footed but i do try to reward some preperation....

 

[Goobermunch]

Of course, we still need a rule change for that to work in my specific example since it's only for attacks of opportunity, and I'm looking at a situation with flat-footed defenders.

[Improved Stand Still]
Prerequisite: Stand Still.
Benefit: Once per round, you may use Stand Still while flat footed.

Normal: You may only use Stand Still as part of an attack of opportunity.

[Greater Stand Still]
Prerequisite: Stand Still, Improved Stand Still, Wisdom 12
Benefit: You may use Improved Stand Still a number of times per round equal to your Wisdom Bonus.

--G