D&D 4E Ideas for 4E tweaks

[Sir Brennen]

Here are a couple of tweaks that I plan to playtest in the next campaign I run:

Recharge on a miss: When you use an encounter power and miss with all your attacks, you can recharge that power on a . When you use a non-reliable daily power and miss with all your attacks, you can recharge a spent encounter power on a . Recharge chances stack. If you miss with two encounter powers, you recharge on a , but you only get to recharge one power at a time, and you reduce your recharge rate by 1 when a power is recharged.

Not quite sure I follow. The sentence with the bold "that" in the quote above leads me to this understanding:

If I miss with EP 1, then EP 1 will recharge on .
If I also miss with DP 2, it will also be set to recharge .
If I miss with a Daily, then EP 1 and EP 2 effectively have recharge , and any other spent EP's with no recharge value yet gain recharge (essentially a "floating" recharge for EP's)​

But you state "If you miss with two encounter powers, you recharge on a ". Doesn't a miss EP only gain recharge for itself? Or should that be "If you miss with an encounter power and a daily power, that power recharges on a "?

I also don't quite understand this: "you reduce your recharge rate by 1 when a power is recharged." So if EP 1 recharges on a , I roll a 6, recharge, and use the power, it still has the possibility of recharging on a ? And if I miss with it in the scenario above, it goes back to ?
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This house rule would work great with power cards for tracking. Flip them over when a power is used, and put a d6 (or two) on it with the recharge value. Or even just on the power on your character sheet.

One could also add a little randomness to what powers recharge when, by stipulating that each time a power gains a recharge, use the next lowest recharge value, beginning with .

So if I miss with EP 1, I turn its card over and place a d6 showing on EP 1.
If I miss with EP 2 (and EP 1 still has a on it), I place a on EP 2.
If I miss with DP 1 and EP 1 & 2 haven't recharged, I put a on DP 1.​

If I roll a or , the corresponding EP is the one that recharges. But if I roll a , I get to choose which EP recharges, and that power retains its recharge number when I use it. I then remove the d6 from DP 1.

This retains the 1 miss = 1 recharge ratio you have setup, and eliminates the need for the "only one power per turn can be recharged" caveat and this talk of "stacking". It does, however, mean the more spent powers you have with a unique recharge value, the more likely that one will recharge each round (compared to possibly having 2 or more EPs with the same value of ) It's a trade-off for not always getting to choose which power recharges, but the increased frequency may be what you want to compensate for misses.
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One other question... would you apply this rule to Daily Powers of magic items on a miss? I could see arguments for or against, as magic weapons in particular also have additional damage potential on crits independent of their daily power.

edit: I think I only posted this so I could play with the 4E icons

 

[FireLance]

Not quite sure I follow.

I had planned to work it something like this:

If you miss with EP1, EP1 recharges on a
If you now miss with EP2, you can recharge either EP1 or EP2 (your choice) if you roll a . After you have recharged one, your recharge die goes back down to and you recharge the other power when it comes up.
If you miss with DP1, you get a recharge die of which you can use to recharge any used encounter power.
If you miss with EP1 and DP1, you get a recharge die of , and when it comes up, you can recharge either EP1 or another used encounter power.​

The idea of assigning a unique die number to each power is interesting, though. Perhaps to refine it further, I should make a clear distinction between missed encounter powers and used encounter powers. A missed power is one that has a recharge value assigned to it and recharges when that value comes up. A used power is one that has hit and has been expended. When a missed daily recharge comes up, the player chooses a used power (but not a missed power) to recharge.

 

[FireLance]

Missed this one.

One other question... would you apply this rule to Daily Powers of magic items on a miss? I could see arguments for or against, as magic weapons in particular also have additional damage potential on crits independent of their daily power.

Offhand, I don't think I would. I believe that most magic item daily powers work automatically, anyway, e.g. they trigger off "when you hit", "when you fail a saving throw", etc.

 

[Elric]

Here's the latest version of rules changes for my game. Much of it is taken directly from the errata (most of the power and skill changes, for instance. I figured it was easier to have 1 document of changes, rather than 1 errata sheet and 1 house rules sheet, so I combined them.) But other things are new, including new feats, changes to multiclassing, familiars, skill challenges, etc.

Typically good stuff, Samurai.

I particularly like Feather Me Yon Oaf! Great credit to whoever came up with that name

For Half Elves, I think it makes more sense to give them +2 Cha and choice of +2 to Wis or Con (not the option of +2 Dex as well). There's already a +2 Cha/+2 Dex PH race (Halflings), but there is no +2 Wis/+2 Cha PH race.

 

[Samurai]

Typically good stuff, Samurai.

I particularly like Feather Me Yon Oaf! Great credit to whoever came up with that name

For Half Elves, I think it makes more sense to give them +2 Cha and choice of +2 to Wis or Con (not the option of +2 Dex as well). There's already a +2 Cha/+2 Dex PH race (Halflings), but there is no +2 Wis/+2 Cha PH race.

Thank you!

Yeah, I wish they'd left Feather Me Yon Oaf in, and decided to put it back in myself as a ranged version of Commander's Strike, so that a Warlord can work well with a mostly ranged party, not just the melee party members.

For the Half Elves, I thought of it this way: They could get their choice of either the Elf's Dex or Wis bonus, or the (somewhat strange IMO) Half-Elf Con bonus. I tend to think of Half Elves as fairly thin and dexterous, so it seems appropriate, and while the stat bonuses may be similar to a Halfling, the other racial abilities, feats, etc are quite different. Over time, as more and more PC races are added, I'm sure we'll begin to see stat bonus duplication, and then it's a matter of making sure the other racial abilities are significantly different so that they don't seem identical. Plus, the Half Elven Rogue and Ranger are staple archetypes, and need that Dex bonus.

 

[habaal]

The problem with minions is that they become completely useless at High Paragon through Epic levels, so in my games I tend to allow them to survive a little longer, about a hit per tier. Plus, I love to make them cooler than they are presented- maybe give them a special trait or two to differ some of them from the others (such as legion devils who get a Teleportation speed, each minion type should get a quality that makes him unique and fun to run).

Overall, when it comes to minions, I'd never support a mechanic that would make them complex to use, such as the Minion Hit Point Pool, Because they where made with simplicity in mind.

 

[FireLance]

The problem with minions is that they become completely useless at high paragon- epic levels, so in my games I tend to allow them to survive a little longer, about a hit per tier. Plus, i love to make them cooler than they are presented- maybe give them a special trait or two to differ some of the m from the other (such as the legion devils who get a Teleportation speed, each minion type should get a quality that make him unique and fun to run).

Overall, when it comes to minions, I'd never support a mechanic that would make them complex to use, such as the Minion Hit Point Pool, Because they where made with simplicity in mind.

Um, so when running a combat with four epic-level minions, you would rather keep track of when each minion has taken three hits (effectively tracking four separate numbers) instead of a single hit point pool? I'm sorry, but I really don't see how that is any less complex.

 

[habaal]

Well, you got me there, maybe not simpler, but still far from complicated. I found it very easy to remember during combat because no numbers were involved. simply mark Minion #1 and three hollow circles beside it on a page, and place a check per hit the minion suffers. I didn't mean to say the hit point pool was a bad idea, just that I wouldn't use it because I like my minions not having HP to track if they matter less in the ongoing combat. If I'll find it hard during a complex combat to track those minions, I'll seamlessly go back to killing them in one hit. I suggested that mechanic because I think it's the easiest way to prolong the minions' lives a little longer. But to each his own preferences.

 

[Samurai]

Well, you got me there, maybe not simpler, but still far from complicated. I found it very easy to remember during combat because no numbers were involved. simply mark Minion #1 and three hollow circles beside it on a page, and place a check per hit the minion suffers. I didn't mean to say the hit point pool was a bad idea, just that I wouldn't use it because I like my minions not having HP to track if they matter less in the ongoing combat. If I'll find it hard during a complex combat to track those minions, I'll seamlessly go back to killing them in one hit. I suggested that mechanic because I think it's the easiest way to prolong the minions' lives a little longer. But to each his own preferences.

In the rules I posted above, you'll see that I had a very simple method for allowing Minions to last a while longer... they have Resilience, a form of DR. It works the same as Hardness, it reduces all damage they suffer by that amount. If there is still 1 (or more) points of damage left over after subtracting the Resilience, the Minion goes down. If not, he's still up. No tracking of points involved at all.

And since Resilience is 1/2 the minion's level + their Con bonus, and all monsters get 1/2 their level added to their stat bonuses anyway so the modifier listed in the stat block is already figured and usable as is, the GM doesn't have to figure a thing... just look down to see the listed Con bonus, and if the damage on a hit exceeds it by at least 1, down goes the minion. What could be easier?

 

[Stalker0]

To my mind, its not that the minion mechanics are bad at high levels, its that minions need a little more epicness is their abilities.

Even in death, an epic minion should harm the field. For example, giving strength to the main bad guy, releasing gas that does some damage, getting one last attack, getting a saving throw or instantly coming back to life, etc.

For the recharge rules, simplicity is key. Players already have so much to track. My thoughts:

1) One recharge roll per turn on a miss, and no bonuses. If its a 6 every time, players will remember.
2) Since your weakening reliable powers a tad since all powers become slightly reliable, you could still have them roll a recharge roll even if they miss. On a 6 you get them back. Now that puts some fun into reliable!
3) Do it at the end of the player's turn, so he doesn't forget (it could be a while before his next turn).
4) Feel free to scale it to your games liking. Don't feel bound by the d6, afterall, players aren't monsters. Use a d4, d8, whatever die gives you the amount of recharging you want for your group.