ideas for a good 4th level spell pick for budding 7th lvl necromancer

[evilbob]

I'm trying to come up with some good advice for a friend of mine on their newly 7th level necromancer. My friend gets to pick two 4th level spells as a wizard, one of which is undoubtedly going to be animate dead. My only problem is: what's a good 2nd choice to recommend?

Prohibited schools are illusion and enchantment, so no charm monster or greater invisibility. The build is an undead-commanding, -raising necro who has horrible strength and poor HP (so touch spells are pretty much out - bye-bye bestow curse) and phenomenal DCs on necromancy spells (spell focus AND greater spell focus necromancy). Also pretty good at rays (high Dex). The campaign is very undead-heavy (so charm wouldn't be very useful anyway), and the party already has a cleric (so things like remove curse are covered). The group is pretty far from a shop at the moment, so this second spell selection is pretty important and will have to last a while. All core and Spell Compendium spells are open. Other stuff might be, depending on the source.

I've always been a huge fan of movement spells, so dimension door was going to be my main suggestion. But it's only useful for up to two other characters until level 9, at which point my friend could grab teleport anyway. (And what good is that when you have lots of minions to take with you?) Scry is always a good standby, but the material component would actually be pretty tricky to come by at this point in the campaign (and the cleric can grab it in two levels anyway). I wondered about perhaps summon monster IV or summon undead IV? Summon undead is neat, but fairly useless against other undead (undead are generally immune to other undead's special attacks), and as another recent thread of mine pointed out, allips and ghasts can actually hurt the party more than help. Summon monster, by contrast, summons a lot of creatures that can easily get their butt kicked by undead. Enervation and fear are both strong spells (especially for this build), but less useful overall in an undead-heavy campaign. (Then again, not everything is undead.) Polymorph... is just way too complicated.

Any ideas or suggestions are appreciated - especially ones that involve using spells in some effective way that isn't very obvious. (Also, the player isn't really looking to change the build, so ideas that suggest respec'ing or something along those lines aren't really what I'm looking for.) Thanks!


Related question: would shout work against undead? It works against crystaline objects, but I don't know if that really qualifies it...

 

[blargney the second]

Enervation. It's just nasty.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Seconded Enervation is a nasty spell that epitomizes mecromancy and with metmagic can hold up well into the upper levels of a campaign. Remember if he's got any feats left Arcane Thesis is just sick in what it can do for metamagic.

 

[akbearfoot]

Well, as its written, it should be either banned or raised up to a 6th level spell. So I cringe at actually suggesting what I think is THE most busted 4th level core spell....Black tentacles. That said, if he has low HP, he should definitely take Dimension door, and always always ALWAYS keep it memorized at least once. If you get grappled, you are dead without this spell.


I know you didn't really ask for an opinion, but spell focus/gr spell focus necromancy are seriously a waste of feats....necromancy spells that allow saves generally still have an decent effect even if they are saved against, or they require an attack roll(usually ranged) and allow NO save. Metamagic spells, especially empower, split ray or chain spell are amazing for necromancy. See above posts on enervation...also empowered ray of enfeeblement is SICK.


Just to note, undead are immune to physical ability damage but NOT physical ability penalties.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Depends on what he wants to be able to do

If the player just wants to increase his offensive output, then Enervation is probably the winner. It is necromantic, and brutal. But, not so much help against undead.

If your seeking a defensive spell, one of Stone Skin, Resilient Sphere, Solid Fog, or Wall of Ice can be quite handy. Stoneskin will help with the craptastic HP, Solid Fog can break line of sight and buy you time to buff or escape. Wall of Ice just creates a nice inconvenient obstacle, and in dome shape, is essentially a no save trap, provided the target is nowhere near the edges. Resilient Sphere is a nice spell to have since it can either isolate an enemy for you to kill later, or it can protect you for quite a while.

Black Tentacles is another great spell to work with. As noted, it is borderline broken. To be a true bastard, drop the Solid Fog, then put the tentacles in the fog.

if the PHB2 is an option, I would recommend Doom Scarabs (60 ft Cone shaped burst doing 1d6 / 2 levels of the caster that bypasses spell resistance, if target has spell resistance that you manage to bypass, you gain 1d4 tmp hp, Will save), Slashing Dispel(as dispel magic, any creature under a spell effect that is dispelled suffers 2 dmg per level of the spell), or Bleakness (1d6 Dmg per round to living creatures, undead gain turn resist 4 and fast healing 3).

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Mistwell]

Enervation or Black Tentacles.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Fear. This spell can do wonders for a squishy caster that gets cornered.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I too would recommend Fear or Enervation, but the OP mentioned undead heavy game, and as undead are immune to fear and energy drain this would weaken the choice of the spell.

So learn Evard's Black Tentacles.

 

[evilbob]

Thanks, EN World hive mind - these are all great suggestions!

Evard's black tentacles is pretty popular: I am curious as to why folks think it is broken (although the idea to combo it with solid fog is brilliant!). It sounds like a great anti-caster spell (since it grapples well and does damage), but other than the movement penalty, does it really do much against brutes? I appreciate that it's just as effective against undead (and bypasses SR), so that's a big plus regardless.

Enervate, too, is one that seems extremely effective against casters (since they lose 1 spell per negative level and one "caster level" as well), but other than having a penalty for several hours, doing an average of 2 negative levels once (without metamagic) just doesn't grab me. I'm sure I'm missing something, though.

Fear is still a great choice, especially since it can be cast without regard to undead minions (they prefer being called "minions" to "henchmen" ), but I'm worried it just won't be useful enough (too many undead). And making things run away is always sort of anti-climactic... (Although the point about being stuck in a corner is a good one.)

I don't have the PHB2 in front of me but bleakness sounds useful, especially if it can be used as a sort of arcane "mass inflict" for healing and buffing undead minions...

Thanks a bunch, please keep 'em coming!

 

[Nifft]

As has been mentioned, dimension door isn't just a weak, early teleport -- it's a weak, early, Stilled teleport with no material component or miss chance. Every Wizard needs to escape from a grapple sometimes, and this is how he does it.

Black tentacles is a great spell. Anti-mob, anti-caster, anti-ghost (!!!), and it can even delay the big boys for a round or two. One of the premiere battlefield control spells.

Cheers, -- N