Ideas for Rogue in Heavy Armor

[Gnome]

I thought I'd do something a little different and try to build a rogue character that uses heavy armor in order to increase survivability in toe to toe combat while flanking. Seems crazy, I know, but I thought I'd try my hand at it to see if it can be made to work or not.

Pros: Better AC, which means better survivability in toe-to-toe combat
Cons: High armor check penalty (-5 for MW Full Plate), no Evasion ability or possibility to get Improved Evasion, reduced speed, must take relevant feats or 1 level of a class that grants them.

So, can anyone think of any feats, prestige classes, or items that will help offset these penalties? Here's what I've come-up with so far:

* Heavy Armor Optimization and Greater Heavy Armor Optimization increase the armor bonus by 1 each, and reduce the armor check penalties by 1 and 2, respectively, for a total +2 AC and -3 armor check penalty.
* Boots of Striding and Springing make-up for the lost speed
* Skill focus and related feats can partially offset armor check penalties, although at a great cost.
* Slick, Shadow, and Silent Moves armor abilities from the DMG offset the penalties to Escape Artist, Hide, and Move Silently checks, respectively.
* The Nimbleness ability from Magic of Faerun reduces armor check penalties by 1, and increases max DEX by 2.

My idea is specifically for a warforged rogue with the Adamantine Body feat, since the race's +2 CON, and the damage reduction granted by this feat will help in toe-to-toe combat even more.

Any other ideas to make this silly concept work?

 

[Caliban]

First suggestion: Go with a Mithral Breastplate instead. At higher levels evasion becomes more and more useful, assuming that you have a good reflex save.

Barring that, I would try to talk you DM into allowing the "Graced" armor enhancement from the "Forged in Magic" sourcebook from Paradigm concepts. It's been errata'd to be a +2 ability. It cuts the weight of the armor in half, increases Max Dex by +2, reduces the armor check penalty, and makes the armor "Light Armor" so that you can still use Evasion.

 

[Kelleris]

Get yourself a tower shield. Sure, the armor check penalty is massive (-10), but a chain shirt plus tower shield is equal to full plate and doesn't decrease your speed or max Dex a bit. Plus, you can use the shield for total cover when you absolutely, positively need to not die right now.

Also, I believe (but could be wrong, working from memory) that the shield only applies its ACP when you actually have it readied, so if you can spare an action at the beginning of every battle you don't even need to take the ACP. I wouldn't recommend getting tumble ranks, though...

EDIT: Almost forgot. Of course you'd be silly not to take a level in fighter if you go with a tower shield, since it saves you several feats. Plus, you can take weapon focus and, with the Fighter's +1 BAB, almost negate the penalty for attacking with a tower shield.

 

[TheGogmagog]

A level of figher is always good for combat rogues, not only will it save you a feat, it will gain you one. Weapon specialization isn't what it used to be but 4 levels of fighter might work.

A level of cleric could work really well also. Travel and Luck domains (Farlangen (sp) from forgotten realms) would give you 1 round of freedom of movement (ignore armor), Longstrider: 10ft, and a luck reroll. A bless and use of wand of cure light wounds (warforged healing would either make this more important or not important at all).

I would completely forget about hide and move silently. While you are at it, max your UMD. Take the rogue ability that let's you take 10 on a few skills (disable, UMD) and you should be able to use any scroll or wand reliably around 15th level. Then you will have acess to fly, blink, and enough spells to compensate any other shortcomings.

What book are the heavy armor feats from?

 

[Gnome]

What book are the heavy armor feats from?

Races of Stone. The first requires BAB +4 and heavy armor proficiency, and the second one requires a +8 BAB.

 

[Sejs]

Take a level or two in fighter. If the whole reason you're wearing heavy armor is because you're going to be in the thick of things fighting, it'd make sense to take some actual training in the matter. Besides, you'll also net shield and tower shield prof, a bonus feat or two, martial weapons, and you'll be more hardy than the other rogues that shy away from a fight.

Anyway, for the Tank Rogue, I'd say just de-emphasize your role as a scout, and instead play up your other aspects. Search, Open Lock, Disable Device and so on arn't hindered by heavy armor one bit.

Instead of being the Shadow That Walks, be MacGuyver in Fullplate.

 

[Kelleris]

You can also plow a bunch of points into Diplomacy and its slightly less useful relations, and make a social rogue. Plus, you could even use Int as your dump stat, since you aren't trying for the full Rogue skill package, so to speak.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Also, I believe (but could be wrong, working from memory) that the shield only applies its ACP when you actually have it readied, so if you can spare an action at the beginning of every battle you don't even need to take the ACP. I wouldn't recommend getting tumble ranks, though...

I'd do tumble, though you may need to wait until higher levels until you can make the check with the penalties.

I like the tower shield idea, when it hits the fan go to full cover, or drop the shield and run. It would allow you to remove the shield when searching or disabling traps.

Combat expertise would be another way to boost your AC by 5.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Travel and Luck domains (Farlangen (sp) from forgotten realms) would give you 10 rounds of freedom of movement (ignore armor), Longstrider: 10ft, and a luck reroll.

The travel domain power does absolutely nothing against the restrictions imposed by heavy armor.

 

[Kelleris]

Combat expertise would be another way to boost your AC by 5.

I wouldn't generally recommend it, though, as that'd be another -5 attack penalty on top of the tower shield's -2 all feeding off Rogue BAB. The nice thing about the tower shield, actually, is that it comes free with a Fighter level and does most of the work a Rogue wants Combat Expertise to do. So both of them together is, in my opinion, a bit wasteful of feats.

Unless, of course, your objective is to be completely unhittable when you feel the need to do so. The nice thing about fighting defensively (with 5 ranks in Tumble, so you get a higher bonus), using Combat Expertise, and wearing heavy armor is that you still technically get to attack. I recommend using the aid another action (you only have to hit AC 10) and/or using Bluff to annoy your opponent into attacking into your "wall of iron" AC, which should be essentially unhittable by any mook and all but the most combat-focused big baddies.

Improved feinting every round means that at least some enemies will suddenly be on the outer margins of hittable even when you're in full turtle mode, so that might be an interesting way to go. You'd have to fight a lot of humanoid opponents that care about their Dex bonus to AC in your games, though. Most monster-types aren't getting enough of their AC from Dex to put them in the hittable range when they lose it.