Identifying Magic Items

[boredgremlin]

I would prefer detect magic or identify to tell the caster the school of magic involved with an item and the relative power.

Then a more powerful spell, 3rd or 4th level to give specific powers of most items, and something even more powerful, 8th level or so for artifact level powers.

And none of them should reveal curses.

 

[Dragonblade]

The notion that item experimentation contributes to sense of wonder is dead wrong, IMO.

Having to experiment with items is firmly rooted in the notion of magic as physics. Where you can determine an item's discrete properties through a pseudo-scientific process. I think this is actually the antithesis to instilling items with wonder and frankly it becomes a rote exercise in mundanity.

If every item has to be experimented with then it ceases to be interesting and becomes boring, routine, and frankly incredibly annoying.

In my old 1e games, we got so tired of having to experiment with a hundred different things that all the players literally got together, wrote a multi-page document carefully detailing every possible thing we could try with every item we find. Then we just went through it like a checklist with every item.

Sense of wonder comes from feeling that items have unique and mysterious properties that you can never fully understand or reveal through either testing or use. That no matter how often you use an item and think you know what it does, it always hints at having more secrets to unlock.

For sense of wonder in magic, magic items need to be rare, but powerful and never lose utility no matter what level you are. Sure they will provide some discrete mechanical benefit that the PC can rely on, but there should always be this feeling that there is something more to discover....

For example, if I was to make even something simple like Gloves of Climbing. I would never just give them a +5 to climb checks. That's boring. I would have the wearer instead roll 2d20 and take the higher roll. You know the gloves help you, but you never know how much they will help you. That is how magic should work.

Likewise, if you wear the gloves and still fall, I as DM might make a secret check to see if the gloves do something unexpected to help. Like a secret d20 roll, and on a 10 or higher, I would say you begin to fall but suddenly you are able to catch yourself on a spur of rock you never noticed before. You can't help but feel the magic of the gloves has helped you out...

 

[Hassassin]

My guess is that "I want experimentation" is strongly correlated with "I want low magic". I know I wouldn't want to get rid of identify without getting rid of 3e/4e level magic item proliferation.

Optimally, I'd like to see the PCs find a magic item only every 1-4 sessions, and have those be significant and interesting. Then spending 5 minutes of play time figuring out what they do wouldn't be bad.

 

[CleverNickName]

Do the "experiment" route too much, and it isn't magical anymore, either.

If every item has to be experimented with then it ceases to be interesting and becomes boring, routine, and frankly incredibly annoying.

In my old 1e games, we got so tired of having to experiment with a hundred different things that all the players literally got together, wrote a multi-page document carefully detailing every possible thing we could try with every item we find. Then we just went through it like a checklist with every item.

This is what happens when the party is finding magical gizmos after every encounter. If you keep the number of magic items low, the few that the party does find will be rare and wonderful (and memorable), even if it is just a potion of gaseous form.

The issue isn't having to identify everything.
The issue is having too many things that need identification.

 

[the Jester]

My guess is that "I want experimentation" is strongly correlated with "I want low magic". I know I wouldn't want to get rid of identify without getting rid of 3e/4e level magic item proliferation.

Optimally, I'd like to see the PCs find a magic item only every 1-4 sessions, and have those be significant and interesting. Then spending 5 minutes of play time figuring out what they do wouldn't be bad.

I will agree with this completely. I definitely prefer fewer and more lasting magic items to the current "it's obsolete in 5 levels" approach.

Keeping track of this stuff is easy if each pc doesn't have 20 different magic items.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I've never seen much of the appeal of identifying magic items. I'd much rather have characters just be able to quickly ascertain the capabilities of an item without even needing anything like an identify spell. Overly drawn out identification is just a chore. If you want magic items to be "magical", "mysterious", "wonderous", or whatever, then complex identification is not the way. After all, as [MENTION=2804]Dragonblade[/MENTION] said, it just turns into a tedious algorithm, and once that algorithm is complete the "mystery" is all gone.

Honestly, if you want a system where magic items slowly reveal their full potential, it would be better to use a system where magic items are have genuinely complexity and depth, rather than using a system of obscuring their shallowness with identification mechanics. I'd much rather see a flaming sword that has ever-greater levels of power that can be tapped by a skilled and creative wielder than see players play a silly minigame to figure out how to get the flaming sword to ignite in the first place.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

The issue isn't having to identify everything.
The issue is having too many things that need identification.

If your solution is to stop doing something that a lot of people like, then it isn't a solution. Just saying.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Identifying magic items through experimentation was extremely fun* back in the day. I hope that they bring that back as one of the options.





*When I was the DM.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Likewise, if you wear the gloves and still fall, I as DM might make a secret check to see if the gloves do something unexpected to help. Like a secret d20 roll, and on a 10 or higher, I would say you begin to fall but suddenly you are able to catch yourself on a spur of rock you never noticed before. You can't help but feel the magic of the gloves has helped you out...

Unusual magic as rationale for DM fiat (AKA fudging), in a deliberately inconsistent manner, is one I had not considered before. Doubt I would want to do that all the time, but it would certainly make an interesting change of pace. Think of the bless spell being used this way:

Cleric: I cast bless.
Fighter: +1 to hit?
Cleric: No, I don't know what it does.
Fighter: Say What? Ok, I roll. Darn, I rolled a 3.
DM: The ghoul steps in front of your blade as it misses. Roll damage and count half ...
Fighter: OK, cool, so we get half damage on a miss. Alright.
DM and Cleric: Don't count on it ...

 

[CleverNickName]

If your solution is to stop doing something that a lot of people like, then it isn't a solution. Just saying.

I think we are both saying the same thing.