Identifying Potions

[Zurai]

As mentioned, detect magic would have revealed that it was the bottles, not the contents, that were magical, and would have revealed that the auras were Conjuration (presumably, anyway), which is a rather uncommon potion school - mage armor being about the only common Conjuration potion, and its aura would be very weak compared to any summon worth the cost to make a trap out of it.

 

[irdeggman]

If Identify is all you're using to check for curses, I'm afraid you're going to be a very cursed individual. A 20th-level caster casting Identify on a cursed item has an 80% chance to NOT notice the curse. (I've been looking in the SRD for the relevant passage, and I don't think it's there. And I don't have my DMG handy. But it's in the Cursed Item section of the DMG, in the section about selling Cursed Items. A caster has a 1% chance per caster level of noticing a curse- otherwise, it detects exactly as the item it's appearing as.) So that's not a very good idea if all you've got is identify. Analyze Dweomer and Legend Lore are much better for noticing Curses, and are much more in line with their power. After all, who cares about Cursed Items if all you need to notice them is a 1st-level spell?

Here you go from the SRD:

A simple detect magic spell yields a misleading aura and strength, often indicating that the item is a noncursed item of similar sort. An identify spell only has a 1% chance per caster level to reveal a cursed item’s true properties, including the cursed aspect. Analyze dweomer reveals the true nature of a cursed item.

 

[irdeggman]

OP - since the bottles were "traps" did the party get (or attempt) search checks (those with trapfinding that is) to determine if they were traps?

 

[KarinsDad]

As mentioned, detect magic would have revealed that it was the bottles, not the contents, that were magical, and would have revealed that the auras were Conjuration (presumably, anyway), which is a rather uncommon potion school - mage armor being about the only common Conjuration potion, and its aura would be very weak compared to any summon worth the cost to make a trap out of it.

How about Cure/Heal potions? They are conjuration and can be quite powerful.

And how are you getting that Detect Magic would reveal the bottle as magical as opposed to the contents? Detect Magic states nothing about specific portions of items, rather it states that location of auras are detected. That is a fairly nebulous statement.

 

[irdeggman]

And how are you getting that Detect Magic would reveal the bottle as magical as opposed to the contents? Detect Magic states nothing about specific portions of items, rather it states that location of auras are detected. That is a fairly nebulous statement.

Well if the bottle and potion are considered "separate" objects for the purposes of the identify spell then it only follows that they have a different "location" for their auras. But the auras can be masked by a more powerful one - so it all depends on what spell is where.

But if there are two auras present in the "area" {even if you don't want to narrow it down any} then the caster would "know" without a doubt that there was something more going on than a simple potion (since a potion is a single spell and hence only one aura).

 

[eamon]

In case people feel that a magical bottle would encase a magical potion such that it hides the potion's aura by blocking line of effect, I thought I'd just point out that detect magic can penetrate thin barrier's.

 

[KarinsDad]

Well if the bottle and potion are considered "separate" objects for the purposes of the identify spell then it only follows that they have a different "location" for their auras. But the auras can be masked by a more powerful one - so it all depends on what spell is where.

The rules do not explicitly state one way or the other. As pointed out by eamon, the bottle does not block line of effect. The word "aura" does not imply a concrete image, it implies something vague and indistinct. Like the light given off by a candle or some form of radiation. Does a frosted bulb glow inside the bulb, or does the outside edge appear to glow?

In the Detect Undead spell, it states: "You can detect the aura that surrounds undead creatures." This implies that auras surround objects.

Ditto for Holy Aura: "A brilliant divine radiance surrounds the subjects" Ditto for Unholy Aura.

The use of auras in the game (since we are not given a specific definition) appears to indicate that they surround objects, so I think it is more reasonable to assume that the location of a potion aura and the location of a bottle aura would be the same. Around the bottle.

This is totally within DM adjudication land as opposed to specific rules land. Hence, I think the OP is well within the rules to rule it the way he did and he is not specifically changing any rules to do so.

But if there are two auras present in the "area" {even if you don't want to narrow it down any} then the caster would "know" without a doubt that there was something more going on than a simple potion (since a potion is a single spell and hence only one aura).

Where do you get two auras from?

 

[irdeggman]

The rules do not explicitly state one way or the other. As pointed out by eamon, the bottle does not block line of effect. The word "aura" does not imply a concrete image, it implies something vague and indistinct. Like the light given off by a candle or some form of radiation. Does a frosted bulb glow inside the bulb, or does the outside edge appear to glow?

The rules do say that the "items" give off auras. Which means, at least to my reading, that each item gives off an aura. But they can be "masked" so it might be possible to "overwelm" the aura.

3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Spellcraft skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura; DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + half caster level for a nonspell effect.)

Magical areas, multiple types of magic, or strong local magical emanations may distort or conceal weaker auras

Where do you get two auras from?

Hmm that was the entire point wasn't it?

I mean the potion itself and the "magical trap" that the bottle is.

The point being that a Detect Magic should indicate multiple auras if there is a trap on the bottle and a potion inside - so an identify spell would not be required to determine that something is amiss.

Now if there is no potion, but only a trap - then this method is moot since there should only be 1 magic aura (unless the trapped creature has it's own aura - then it an entirely different ball of wax.

 

[Krensus]

I would say it would depend upon what exactly the mechanic of the bottle is. If it is a monster trapped inside the bottle, then the bottle would exude some kind of trapping aura, such as abjuration. Abjuration is a fairly common aura for a potion, so I don't see why this would raise questions in the wizard's mind.

If the opening of the bottle triggers a conjuration spell, then it would of course show an aura of conjuration. Conjuration is probably the most common aura for a potion, so it would most likely be assumed that it is some sort of unique healing potion by the wizard under the board.

As for how identify works, I would have to say that the RAW indicates you have to put your pinky into the bottle to touch the liquid. I'd say that the caster would choose not to discharge identify until their finger was touching the magical liquid (or gas, in this case), and thus they would identify the bottle, but not before it was already too late. The trapped monster would have escaped at that point, and the wizard would probably take the true nature of the bottle to his grave.

 

[irdeggman]

I would say it would depend upon what exactly the mechanic of the bottle is. If it is a monster trapped inside the bottle, then the bottle would exude some kind of trapping aura, such as abjuration. Abjuration is a fairly common aura for a potion, so I don't see why this would raise questions in the wizard's mind.

If the opening of the bottle triggers a conjuration spell, then it would of course show an aura of conjuration. Conjuration is probably the most common aura for a potion, so it would most likely be assumed that it is some sort of unique healing potion by the wizard under the board.

As for how identify works, I would have to say that the RAW indicates you have to put your pinky into the bottle to touch the liquid. I'd say that the caster would choose not to discharge identify until their finger was touching the magical liquid (or gas, in this case), and thus they would identify the bottle, but not before it was already too late. The trapped monster would have escaped at that point, and the wizard would probably take the true nature of the bottle to his grave.

It all depends on how the "trap" was designed.

Is there more than one spell in effect?

One that binds the creatures to the bottle and one that "shrunk them to fit in the bottle"?

Are the creatures "magical creatures"?

What was the caster level used to trap the creatures? - this one can (and should be) very important. Brew potion only allows spells fo 3rd level or lower to be made into a potion. In almost all cases the caster level used is the minimum for making the item (that is for casting the spell). So in this case most potions should have a 5th level caster equivalent radiant aura - which is "faint". A functioning spell (required to be effective for the trap) would be at least moderate in order to have an sort of trapping spell in place (and that is CL 4-6) so in most likelihood it is a strong aura (CL 7-9) {i.e., 4th or 5th level spells}.

So a well done Detect Magic should work to give the caster an idea that something is wrong here.