D&D General If D&D were created today, what would it look like?

[Faolyn]

I'm sort of puzzled by the assumption that the RPG in this hypothetical scenario of tabletop RPGs only being invented now would be high fantasy, or even fantasy at all. Is it being implied by the thread title?

Well, it is alternate universe D&D.

Actually, there's another question: why did D&D go Medieval Fantasy? Was it just Tolkien's influence?

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes.

If we're talking about D&D being created today, ex nihilo, as if it had never existed before, that still would make it D&D, so there's an assumption that in being D&D, it would be some sort of vaguely medieval fantasy world.

It DOES create the chicken and egg scenario that the last 40+ years of fantasy literature, movies, games etc. have been heavily influenced by D&D, so it would be trying to create D&D from a world where D&D didn't exist, but somehow the fantasy genre was much the same (without very uniquely D&D elements) as it is today.

It's basically what I've been saying. I think we still get Game if Thrones printed and D&D didn't invent the fantasy genre.
. No D&D novels it maybe Raymond E Feist books but most other fantasy books probably still get printed.

RPGs still probably get printed, D6 Star Wars maybe. Not sure about Traveller.

Failing a sci fi/space opera RPG I think a video game would get done eventually probably in Japan.

Game of thrones and Viking influence would be stronger imho due to the threeTV shows and Thor via MCU which would influence it more.

Mechanically not d20 and maybe not very good depending on if and when other RPGs get invented.

 

[wingsandsword]

Well, it is alternate universe D&D.

Actually, there's another question: why did D&D go Medieval Fantasy? Was it just Tolkien's influence?

Tolkien actually was only one of several authors that were literary influences on D&D.

D&D grew out of tabletop wargaming, and a medieval wargame called "chainmail" was something Gygax was playing in the early 1970's. The original idea was like a wargame, but to play just one character instead of a whole army.

Tolkien was one literary influence, but the works of Jack Vance's Dying Earth, Fritz Lieber's Nehwon novels, Michael Moorcock's Elric novels, Robert Howard's Conan, and Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions were just as influential.

However, those novels were more niche, while Tolkien had more mainstream appeal, so gamers that weren't well versed in early-to-mid 20th century fantasy novels would more easily pick out the Tolkien elements and recognize those and play games that drew more on that influence.

 

[JEB]

I think we still get Game if Thrones printed

I think that's pretty debatable, as mentioned upthread, enough so that it probably shouldn't be counted as a strong influence on this alt-D&D. And as I also mentioned, a GOT-based game wouldn't be nearly as marketable to a mainstream audience as D&D was in its day. That doesn't mean, however, that a GOT-style RPG wouldn't appear in this alternate history... I just wouldn't bet on the first fantasy RPG using it as a primary influence.

RPGs still probably get printed, D6 Star Wars maybe. Not sure about Traveller.

Traveller, probably not. Star Wars is a trickier question - certainly it's an obvious choice for a license once the industry gets started, especially (as is likely) if RPGs are inspired in part by Star Wars... but as pointed out upthread, the Star Wars franchise was partially supported between the original trilogy and prequels by the RPG. So did Star Wars take a different trajectory without the RPG?

West End Games should still exist, of course, but it took them nearly a decade to get into the RPG industry in our timeline, and several more years before they picked up the Star Wars license. If the RPG industry is delayed until, say, the 1980s, WEG might not even get into RPGs.

That all said, are we likely to see a Star Wars RPG at some point in this alternate timeline? Probably. But who knows what it'll look like, when it'd be released, or how successful it would be? Lots of variables to consider.

 

[Lanefan]

That all said, are we likely to see a Star Wars RPG at some point in this alternate timeline? Probably. But who knows what it'll look like, when it'd be released, or how successful it would be? Lots of variables to consider.

Ironclad guarantee you'd also see a Star Trek RPG at some point, given that back in that era (pre ST:TNG) Trek still had a loyal following and there was in some cases a fairly deep divide between the ST and SW fanbases.

 

[Lanefan]

In my low magic urban fantasy game, these are the colors.

• White: Healing and Blessing
• Black: Death and Cursing
• Red: Elemental Energy (fire, cold, electric, light, "force", radiation)
• Blue: Knowledge and Divination
• Yellow: Body magic, transmutation,and alchemy
• Green: Plants, Animals, Fungus, and Germs
• Orange: Chronmancy and Conjuration
• Purple: Mind magic and psionics
• Brown: Elemental Matter (earth, metal, wind, water, sound)
• Grey: Illusions and Raw Magic

Interesting. Maybe not 100% the associations I'd have made but close enough for rock and roll.

Were it me, for game-play sake I'd split out elemental energy such that different colours would have more access to damage-dealing. Cold/ice would go to White, for example; electric/lightning to Blue; light to Yellow; while fire, heat and radiation would stay with Red. Not sure where 'force' would go.

Just for kicks, as it's not been mentioned yet, sonic magic would go to Red to make up for all the elemental bits it just lost. Come to think of it, I'd also split out the elemental matter bits from Brown: Blue gets water, Grey gets metal, White or Orange gets wind/air, Red picks up sound to go with fire and maybe Black gets earth. On this, Brown would become redundant and disappear; or if it remains it becomes the catch-all generalist area for things that don't really fit anywhere else.

I'd split out psionics into their own discrete system* (some people don't like sub-systems but I often find them highly useful) and move illusion into Purple as illusion overlaps greatly with mind magic anyway. Grey would get wild magic along with raw magic; though particularly if it keeps illusion I'd drop Grey as a designator and replace it with Rainbow or All-Colour.

* - in part to make psionics modular enough to be fully optional: a DM who doesn't want them can just drop without causing knock-on balance effects elsewhere in the magic system.

There's various minor types of magic that'd need to be shoehorned in here somewhere (or just dumped into Brown the catch-all): written magic (including scroll creation), dream magic, summoning and-or banishment magic, and - perhaps most importantly - travel magic.

 

[Minigiant]

Interesting. Maybe not 100% the associations I'd have made but close enough for rock and roll.

Were it me, for game-play sake I'd split out elemental energy such that different colours would have more access to damage-dealing. Cold/ice would go to White, for example; electric/lightning to Blue; light to Yellow; while fire, heat and radiation would stay with Red. Not sure where 'force' would go.

Just for kicks, as it's not been mentioned yet, sonic magic would go to Red to make up for all the elemental bits it just lost. Come to think of it, I'd also split out the elemental matter bits from Brown: Blue gets water, Grey gets metal, White or Orange gets wind/air, Red picks up sound to go with fire and maybe Black gets earth. On this, Brown would become redundant and disappear; or if it remains it becomes the catch-all generalist area for things that don't really fit anywhere else.

I'd split out psionics into their own discrete system* (some people don't like sub-systems but I often find them highly useful) and move illusion into Purple as illusion overlaps greatly with mind magic anyway. Grey would get wild magic along with raw magic; though particularly if it keeps illusion I'd drop Grey as a designator and replace it with Rainbow or All-Colour.

* - in part to make psionics modular enough to be fully optional: a DM who doesn't want them can just drop without causing knock-on balance effects elsewhere in the magic system.

There's various minor types of magic that'd need to be shoehorned in here somewhere (or just dumped into Brown the catch-all): written magic (including scroll creation), dream magic, summoning and-or banishment magic, and - perhaps most importantly - travel magic.

I doubt elements would be split that way unless made for a video game with limited magic types.

If the elements each get their own color, it would leave too few colors left for nonelemental magic.. It would also make some colors loaded with attack spells. Fine if your game is all about blasting. Like a video game.

But if AU D&D is more than killing bad dudes, it doesn't work unless you jam a whole bunch of unrelated spells into 1 color.

I would think it would look more like a mix of MTG colors and Warhammer Winds of Magic. Just expanded to include magic not see in their base systems. I find that magic splits naturally into 10-15 groups.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think that's pretty debatable, as mentioned upthread, enough so that it probably shouldn't be counted as a strong influence on this alt-D&D. And as I also mentioned, a GOT-based game wouldn't be nearly as marketable to a mainstream audience as D&D was in its day. That doesn't mean, however, that a GOT-style RPG wouldn't appear in this alternate history... I just wouldn't bet on the first fantasy RPG using it as a primary influence.


Traveller, probably not. Star Wars is a trickier question - certainly it's an obvious choice for a license once the industry gets started, especially (as is likely) if RPGs are inspired in part by Star Wars... but as pointed out upthread, the Star Wars franchise was partially supported between the original trilogy and prequels by the RPG. So did Star Wars take a different trajectory without the RPG?

West End Games should still exist, of course, but it took them nearly a decade to get into the RPG industry in our timeline, and several more years before they picked up the Star Wars license. If the RPG industry is delayed until, say, the 1980s, WEG might not even get into RPGs.

That all said, are we likely to see a Star Wars RPG at some point in this alternate timeline? Probably. But who knows what it'll look like, when it'd be released, or how successful it would be? Lots of variables to consider.

Game of Thrones TV show.

Fantasy books still exist unless said books are heavily bad&D based the still get printed. TV show still gets made.

Monk made it in because of Kung Fu. Look at what's been made in the last decade or two.

Various Roman shows +Rome, Spartacus, Barbarians etc)

Various viking shows. (Vikings, Norsemen, Last Kingdom)

Video games
Assassin's Creed Origins, Odyssey, Valhalla

MCU (more vikings)
All not canceled after 1 or two seasons and/or triple AAA games.

I think the big obvious influence is vikings instead of Kung Fu.

Throw in the GoT TV show Witcher may not happen but it's popular so gives an indication of what appeals.

 

[Faolyn]

@wingsandsword, what's sad is I knew that and completely blanked when I wrote that. It's like my stupid brain just decided to forget everything I knew about the history of D&D. Thanks for reminding me--I feel like a doof for forgetting all of that.

 

[Faolyn]

I have to wonder about the monsters. Would they be based more in folklore, with more of an effort to get the folklore right? Or would they decide to make monster elements, like in Pokemon and other similar games, and then mash them together in weird ways. With certain monster elements being weak to or resistant against certain colors of magic...

(Y'know, technically speaking, back in editions before the idea of monster advancement and just upping the Hit Dice of the monster, the orc was the "evolved" form of the goblin, and the ogre was the "evolved" form of the orc...)

That all said, are we likely to see a Star Wars RPG at some point in this alternate timeline? Probably. But who knows what it'll look like, when it'd be released, or how successful it would be? Lots of variables to consider.

It might be more heavily influenced by the prequels.

If the elements each get their own color, it would leave too few colors left for nonelemental magic.. It would also make some colors loaded with attack spells.

Unless the creators got creative with other color names. Water could be turquoise (or aquamarine) for example, and metal could be gold.

If Dragon Magazine were made, then one of their April issues would have the article "The Other Magical Colors" and would introduce Pink and Eggshell and Aubergine magic.

Throw in the GoT TV show Witcher may not happen but it's popular so gives an indication of what appeals.

I've only seen a little bit of Witcher and haven't been able to get the books, but I was under the impression that it was more fractured fairy tales than D&D. At least that's what TV Tropes said.

Monk made it in because of Kung Fu. Look at what's been made in the last decade or two.

It might would have a very different name, though. Is there a name for wuxia fighters?

Of course, it's possible that a wuxia fighter or kung fu fighter would just be another type of fighter rather than a whole class of its own. And ninja would be just another type of rogue and not a "shadow monk. "