D&D General If D&D were created today, what would it look like?

[JEB]

Advent, Zork, et al. all post-date the release of D&D which means there's now no way of knowing how much influence D&D had on their design.

CYOA might have been around earlier in some form.

Ah, you must have missed this earlier in the thread then:

A lot of people are noting that without DnD we would not have gotten a lot of the early computer rpgs that were so foundational to that medium, but I think there's another source that might have led to a similar idea: Choose-your-own-adventure books. Choose Your Own Adventure - Wikipedia

The first book in the genre was written in 1970 (and came out in 1976), so it's likely to have happened without DnD (there's no mention of rpg's in the origin story). And this genre has the same big advantage as turn-based rpgs had in early video game development: it's very easy to code.

(Also, they would have taken off in Japan for much the same reason: it takes a lot less memory to store text as kanji than it does using the Latin alphabet, for the same amount of words.)

If a well-written one had appeared early in the systems, a lot of imitators would have followed, since even a very novice coder could expect to finish a product. And as people iterated on the idea, it probably wouldn't be long before people make the decision trees a little more complex - they might randomize certain outcomes, add inventory which changes available choices, and so on (cf the Lone Wolf series of gamebooks). They might even switch to minigames as deciders if you succeed or fail at a task.

And, of course, visuals. Pictures (at least) for every 'page', maybe animations as tech improves.

This could lead to something very similar to the crpgs we got in the 80's, (but a bit more story-game-focused) with further progress from there. The biggest differences would be: it's unlikely that turn-based combat would be the go-to for resolving conflicts with other characters, and the focus on progression (ie leveling up) would be a lot softer, making that concept a lot less pervasive than it is real video games. But someone would have realized people like it when their character gets stronger, so that would have come eventually.

I personally think that's pretty plausible.

In D&D absence:

• Wargames would get more digitized into TBS and RTS games. Warcraft will likely not be a thing but the AU will have its own Warcraft from another dev. Possible a major LOTR or Historic RTS in the 90s. If RTSes survive to 2021, I see a major ASOIAF RTS with hero units based of major characters.

Absolutely agreed that nothing would stop wargames from making the leap to computer games (strategy and RTS), just like they did in our history. And it seems pretty plausible that there'd eventually be fantasy versions. (Assuming by "its own Warcraft" you don't literally mean Warcraft, but "a fantasy wargame".) If nothing else we surely see the LOTR wargames we got after the movies in the 2000s.

(I will reiterate my skepticism about ASOIAF/GOT, though. GRRM was into RPGs and had mainly been a SF/horror writer - including on the RPG-based Wild Cards universe - before he got into fantasy fiction. It's not impossible, but it also strikes me as in doubt.)

• LARP would continue and be more mythical with no D&D influence. It too might hit computers and online and develop classes based on whatever is popular in the 80s and 90s.

I was ready to cast doubt on LARPs existing, but according to Wikipedia it doesn't really depend on D&D for its origins. (I bet it's called something else, though, since the term "role-playing game" wouldn't have likely been widely used by the late 1970s/early 1980s, when LARP was catching on.) On the other hand, it sounds like D&D's influence was important to popularizing them, so they're probably much more niche than in our timeline (which is saying something). Also, I'm not sure LARPs in our history ever influenced video games, so it also seems less likely in this timeline.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Well if this AUD&D is it's 0e or 1e, then with classes you are trying to guess which fantasy characters will be:

1. Popular in 2021 and decade before
2. Could form in a D&Dless world
3. Don't fit in a generic Fighter/Rogue/Wizard skeleton without needing a boatload of houserules
4. Could be adapted to a Medieval setting

So in 2021, you got

• The Gandalf
• The Conan and Fafhrd
• The Aragorn
• The Dread Pirate Roberts, Musketeer, and Jack Sparrow
• The Harry Potter
• The Jedi and Anime Samurai
• The Goku/Kenshiro
• The X-men and The Bender

Who am I missing for the "book 1"?

The Fezzik/Ludo/Scorpia/ ie The Big Guy

The Assassin

The Jaskier/ the morale guy

Off the top of my head.

Also I don’t think AUDnD would be nearly as Medieval as RLDnD.

 

[Minigiant]

(I will reiterate my skepticism about ASOIAF/GOT, though. GRRM was into RPGs and had mainly been a SF/horror writer - including on the RPG-based Wild Cards universe - before he got into fantasy fiction. It's not impossible, but it also strikes me as in doubt.)

Seeing that ASOIAF is the War of the Roses Gone Crazy, GRRM might have still made it. It would look different though. The Dragons might be Gryphons.

 

[Zardnaar]

That's your bias showing.

If D&D were created today, as in February 2021, and it was made for general audiences.... D&D would have a lot of anime/manga influence. There would be systems to mimic the weapon and magic styles found in anime/manga and it likely would not mesh with more classical Western styles.

It would impossible to have fewer classes without watering down what those classes are.

I'm looking at major TV shows, video games and movies in last decade or so. Triple Aaa games prestige things like GoT.



I think rpgs still would have been invented via video games if nothing else.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Then what class is the third guard on the left in the king's throne room, or the experienced town militiaman at the gate? These are nothing more than "generic fighting people", and there's boatloads of them in any typical setting. Some of them are going to get rather good at what they do (which is generically fight); and some of those will likely end up adventuring. Might as well give 'em their own class, eh?

Yeah what I'm saying is, and you're sort of agreeing with via examples is that those are people who aren't adventurers/heroes. Those people who don't have their own books. They're not as skilled at fighting as the sort of people PCs are. That's why those examples - they're side-characters and people who don't have lines and get summarily defeated by the main characters. There's nothing distinctive or special about them. If they did have a book about them, suddenly they'd be more distinctive and specially trained, like the dude in Legend (the book, not the movie), who ends up basically as a "Barbarian"-type character at the core. Less is more - they're not going to have a million classes in book one, though I expect they would have a lot more "fighting person" classes than D&D.

I mean, if we look at someone like Vimes in Guards, Guards, he's an investigator and negotiator and not a particularly special fighter. Though maybe that's an interesting point? Would see a Sherlock Holmes/Brother Cadfael/The Name of the Rose/etc. class? I think if there was a "skill monkey"-type class, that's what we'd be looking at. Like everone in AUD&D he's basically competent at fighting and has his own style (Sherlock had his Savate/stick-fighting, Cadfael was an ex-crusader, etc.), but maybe his "main deal" is investigation stuff - like maybe investigating things fill the same sort of role in AUD&D that traps and locks did in earlier D&D in our history?

 

[Aldarc]

Seeing that ASOIAF is the War of the Roses Gone Crazy, GRRM might have still made it. It would look different though. The Dragons might be Gryphons.

Doubtful. There is a STRONG Elric and Melnibonéan influence on the Valyrians so there likely would still be dragons.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Doubtful. There is a STRONG Elric and Melnibonéan influence on the Valyrians so there likely would still be dragons.

Agree.

Whilst GRRM has been heavily involved with RPGs, and might not be the writer he is without them, ASoIaF is something which could happen without them. The key influences are history, Tolkien and Moorcock, with the odd Lovecraftian flair. He wrote it specifically because he wanted to write something which was far beyond what could ever be on TV (hahahaha seriously he did though). I can't think of anything about it which is really inspired by or derived from RPGs rather than those sources. If anything, D&D's recent rise in prominence has been helped by broader cultural acceptance of fantasy from stuff like GoT. It's very hard to take a dump on a dude playing an elf when you're watching a show full of dragon princess romance and weeping over the death of brave giants who were fighting ice zombies.

His superhero stuff is a totally different case and I am pretty sure would be very different without RPGs, but has never been terribly successful in the mainstream (even the sub-mainstream of written fantasy/SF).

 

[Aldarc]

The move to RPGs does not exactly seem all that arduous of a task as some people make it out to be. It's sometimes a regular process of games. Even if we account for the fact that fantasy video games have been influenced by D&D, we can see how certain games have drifted towards RPGs from different genres.

Warcraft started as the RTS game Warcraft: Orcs & Humans. The sequel Warcraft 2: Tides of Darkness followed up on the prior formula. Then in the expansion pack Warcraft 2: Beyond the Dark Portal, the game introduced more specialized hero units, which was greatly expanded on in Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos. WC3 brought in specialized hero units that were stronger than regular units, had unique abilities, and could even level up and acquire magic items found in the map. The game also shifted from larger armies and nations to smaller ones centered around the stories of hero characters. WoW was actually in co-development behind the scenes as WC3, but over time the Warcraft series shifted from the stories to the individual level, with World of Warcraft being the ground-eye individualistic level of an RTS game. It's much how D&D was a tactical skirmish game that came from war gaming roots. All it takes is one person to ask "what would it be like to play as a single unit in this game in this world?"

 

[jmartkdr2]

Advent, Zork, et al. all post-date the release of D&D which means there's now no way of knowing how much influence D&D had on their design.

CYOA might have been around earlier in some form.

The first CYOA book was written in 1970, and published in '76.

I theorize that would be the root of the genre that fills the jrpg niche (well, visual novels, but they'd be more popular without jrpgs to compete with.) I could even see that leading to more story-game elements in other genres, so even something like Secret of Mana (Zelda + storygame) or Fire Emblem (wargame + story game) could happen.

But turn-based squad level combat might very well never have been a thing in video games, so the odds of them being a direct root for 2021 DnD is slim.

 

[Bawylie]

It would look something like a Star Wars the Old Republic / Minecraft / No Man’s Sky / Animal Crossing amalgamation without discrete classes or levels. Targeted advancements perhaps. Robust multi-player / pvp, and raid style over world adventuring against AI controlled baddies. Definitely an MMO.

Rare resources would be like crypto currency. And they would do things that ordinary resources could not do. Some would be useful for building, some for crafting vehicles, some for crafting gear.

All cities, ships, and infrastructure would be strictly player-built. Tech advancements would unlock as the world upgraded. Meaning that additional rare materials and rarer materials would become available as players build up the world.