If Everyone Loves Generic, Why Aren't Catalyst Books #1?

[pawsplay]

A system-neutral supplement can be very successful, but you have to consider four things:

1. How much prep time will it take for someone to use this material?
2. What are the competing products available for already published games?
3. How can I achieve name recognition?
4. Can I produce a product of sufficient depth and quality that others will buy it just for the writing? (hint: this is harder than writing for an already invested audience)

There are some very successful system-neutral books. Grimtooth, The Chronicles of Talislanta, Atlantis: The Lost World, Robin's Laws of Good Game Mastering, The Palladium Compendium of Weapons, Master of the Game, etc. And that's not including add-ons (The Primal Order, The Compleat Alchemist) or systems-lite books (original Kingdoms of Kalamar set, oriented toward AD&D but technically systemless).

 

[Maggan]

I've seen several references to ideas that generic books may be the way to go in the future due to the limits of the new license.

I feel like one of those kids at a carnival going, "Shenanigans!"

All data I have had made available to me from publishers and game shops paint the same picture: generic (as in "no system attached") supplements have sold considerably less than system specific supplements.

Granted, this was mostly during the 80s and 90s, but I don't think the taste of gamers has changed so much that it invalidates that data.

That said, I'd love to know how the system-less Freeport experiment turned out for GR.

/M

 

[darjr]

That said, I'd love to know how the system-less Freeport experiment turned out for GR.

I purchased it. I even purchased the Savage Worlds PDF for it. I like it alot.

I'd love a 4e treatment of it. Towards that http://www.greenronin.com/freeport/2008/06/using_the_pirates_guide_with_4.php

 

[Mark]

There are some very successful system-neutral books.

Not that I necessarily dispute you on some of those titles, but what is your yardstick for success?

 

[pawsplay]

Not that I necessarily dispute you on some of those titles, but what is your yardstick for success?

Well, just as a for instance, Chronicles of Talislanta was followed up by an RPG based on the setting which is now in its 5th edition. Atlantis was more widely available than I can recall than many other RPGs that were contemporary. Obviously, I don't have sales figures to look at.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

In my case, I know I have said I prefer setting neutral, not so much as system neutral. But the reality is that I just don't want the setting to get in the way of my enjoyment of the crunch. And I love interesting settings more than anything.

When the setting gets in the way, I think the common reaction is to think that the book isn't general enough, when really the problem is just that the setting was just all over the rules and couldn't be separated easily.

Keep the rules easily separable from setting and I'm all for it.

 

[Glyfair]

This is a great book. It is from their 'Universal Supplement Series' and is a bit more than city generation, though it is about that. Mine says it is the third edition. The two earlier editions being from Midkemia Press.

One edition, in fact, was released by Avalon Hill under the Runequest imprint. I have it buried somewhere, in fact.

As for Catalyst, I have a couple of their Citybooks. I like them, but they sort of miss the "generic" sweet spot for me. They make too many assumptions about the world in which they are set, which makes some of the bits less useful to me.

Most of all, I really don't think the quality is that high. There are some good elements, but the actual execution definitely feels amateurish. Good amateurish, but still amateurish.

 

[maddman75]

I'm not interested at all in generic material. I don't really like setting material in general, which it sounds like most of the examples are from. I only really enjoy setting material when its deeply ingrained into the system. For example, there's almost no chance that I could use a generic book in Exalted. 4e, possibly, but only if it was really written for 4e with no mechanical information. There are so many assumptions in a game system about how everything works, that they aren't going to be compatible in any useful way.

But then I don't care for generic systems either, so maybe I'm just out of the target audience. I want a game to do one thing, and do it well. I'm not one of these guys who takes D&D, mixes in cthulhu mythos and steampunk to create something unique. I'd rather play D&D for D&D, CoC for mythos, and a steampunk game for that.