If Harm is broken, what's the best house rule for it?
- Thread starter Tom Cashel
- Start date
Tom Cashel
First Post
Cheezy move on their part.
IceBear
Explorer
I think it was just to keep things in lines with the historical precedents of the past editions where using cure spells and heal were effective against Undead. Remember, they were afraid to make too many changes and didn't realize until after 3E was released how far they could have gone.
IceBear
IceBear
Trepelano
First Post
Odd that noone has mentioned this yet - but the Harm spell hasn't really changed since 1e. The difference is that in 3e any touch spell stays "loaded" until discharged, so that even if you miss - you don't lose the touch attack.
In the past you cast the spell, made your attempt, and if you missed that was it. Now, you can cast it several rounds early, wait for your opening.
The big advantage is that adventuring parties usually have the wizard and the fighter to set up a simple one-two punch with the cleric casting harm.
People always use dragons to illustrate that this spell is not broken - but keep in mind - there are a lot of powerful creatures that do not fly or have magical resistance. Against a single powerful creature the harm spell gives a party a huge advantage of victory with little risk - that is the key: high chance of success - low risk.
I use the following rule: If the target makes its saving throw it loses half its current HP.
In the past you cast the spell, made your attempt, and if you missed that was it. Now, you can cast it several rounds early, wait for your opening.
The big advantage is that adventuring parties usually have the wizard and the fighter to set up a simple one-two punch with the cleric casting harm.
People always use dragons to illustrate that this spell is not broken - but keep in mind - there are a lot of powerful creatures that do not fly or have magical resistance. Against a single powerful creature the harm spell gives a party a huge advantage of victory with little risk - that is the key: high chance of success - low risk.
I use the following rule: If the target makes its saving throw it loses half its current HP.
Ferox4
First Post
synopsis
So it seems to me that the 2 most popular fixes seem to be either:1)put a cap on the damage (10 or 15 hp/lvl) and institute a saving throw for half cap damage; or 2)make Harm a 9th level spell and use it as written.
I agree that Harm is abusable, but not neccesarily broken. Clerics are conduits of great power and any intelligent creature would be wise to attempt to immobolize or eliminate the Cleric first in any battle. Clerics have gotten their due comeuppance in 3E and cannot be overlooked by their adversaries - lest they suffer grave consequences. Moral: Keep your distance from the Divine.
IMC I will likely institute Harm as a 6th level spell with a cap and also integrate Greater Harm as a 9th level spell and use it as written now. In addition Heal will have the same cap and Greater Heal will be a 9th level spell.
So it seems to me that the 2 most popular fixes seem to be either:1)put a cap on the damage (10 or 15 hp/lvl) and institute a saving throw for half cap damage; or 2)make Harm a 9th level spell and use it as written.
I agree that Harm is abusable, but not neccesarily broken. Clerics are conduits of great power and any intelligent creature would be wise to attempt to immobolize or eliminate the Cleric first in any battle. Clerics have gotten their due comeuppance in 3E and cannot be overlooked by their adversaries - lest they suffer grave consequences. Moral: Keep your distance from the Divine.
IMC I will likely institute Harm as a 6th level spell with a cap and also integrate Greater Harm as a 9th level spell and use it as written now. In addition Heal will have the same cap and Greater Heal will be a 9th level spell.
I think heal and harm work fine (I do house rule a save for half damage like the cause wound spells) if the campaign runs at "tradition" maximum levels (i.e. low to mid teens in level is about a powerful as most folks get). If you routinely play really high levels, you might indeed want to place a cap on these (and probably some others as well).
I think my solution has the most merit when you get into higher levels. Capping the spells but keeping a set amount of healing/damage would be entirely unprecedented and against the spirit of the rules.
If you use that, you're better be ready to give it dice instead to keep with the spirit of the rules. Something like 6d8+caster level healed/damaged would be the most appropriate, but that severely underpowers the spells.
Like I said,down to 1% of current hit points on a failed save, damage equal to 1% of hit points per caster level up to 20 on a successful save. It works.
If you use that, you're better be ready to give it dice instead to keep with the spirit of the rules. Something like 6d8+caster level healed/damaged would be the most appropriate, but that severely underpowers the spells.
Like I said,down to 1% of current hit points on a failed save, damage equal to 1% of hit points per caster level up to 20 on a successful save. It works.
Tom Cashel
First Post
Anubis said:
Protection from Elements: 10 hp/caster level.
