If Harm is broken, what's the best house rule for it?
- Thread starter Tom Cashel
- Start date
RyanL said:
Nope, but it DOES follow the spirit of the rules. It's this: Harm can hurt you a lot but not kill you, and damage on a save is based on caster level.
The percentage suggestion does exactly that, and does it better than the silly "it does this amount of damage, but only down to a certain amount of hit points", which is ALSO unprecendented AND against the spirit of the rules. Remember, my approach is a two-pronged approach.
Anubis:
Firstly, your argument on 'precedence' is entirely unfounded. If this argument were to be taken, then not only would your 'fix' fall at the gate (there are no examples of percentile health damage anywhere) but many new and interesting spells engineered would fall at the first hurdle.
Secondly, you directly contradict yourself.
First off, it is highly unlikely that 1%/caster level is going to be greater than 6d8+level. Taking level 11 (base level), then the latter will inflict 38 damage; in order for your fix to exceed that, the enemy will need to have greater than 345 hit points (unlikely). At higher level, it does become slightly more feasible- taking level 20, the former does 47; in order for your fix to exceed that it is the modest 235 hit points (i.e. more than any of the 20th level DMG NPCs). So why is the former 'underpowered' and yet the latter perfect.
Keep 6d8+level: it is not underpowered, and it is more consistent with the standard rules for instakill save-partial spells. The percentile damage rule breaks your own motto of 'precedence'.
Firstly, your argument on 'precedence' is entirely unfounded. If this argument were to be taken, then not only would your 'fix' fall at the gate (there are no examples of percentile health damage anywhere) but many new and interesting spells engineered would fall at the first hurdle.
Secondly, you directly contradict yourself.
First off, it is highly unlikely that 1%/caster level is going to be greater than 6d8+level. Taking level 11 (base level), then the latter will inflict 38 damage; in order for your fix to exceed that, the enemy will need to have greater than 345 hit points (unlikely). At higher level, it does become slightly more feasible- taking level 20, the former does 47; in order for your fix to exceed that it is the modest 235 hit points (i.e. more than any of the 20th level DMG NPCs). So why is the former 'underpowered' and yet the latter perfect.
Keep 6d8+level: it is not underpowered, and it is more consistent with the standard rules for instakill save-partial spells. The percentile damage rule breaks your own motto of 'precedence'.
My only real problems with that fix are:
1) Capping the damage to a minimum amount of hit points is COMPLETELY unfounded AND unprecedented. My solution may not hold precedence, but at least it holds to the spirit of the rules.
2) That's the amount of damage a normal spell of that level (if the cure/inflict line went that high) would deal on a FAILED save. Yet you wanna make that the damage on a SUCCESSFUL save.
Look, I really am still trying to figure this out, but fixing Harm is extraordinarily difficult to dowithout breaking precdent and/or the spirit of the rules.
1) Capping the damage to a minimum amount of hit points is COMPLETELY unfounded AND unprecedented. My solution may not hold precedence, but at least it holds to the spirit of the rules.
2) That's the amount of damage a normal spell of that level (if the cure/inflict line went that high) would deal on a FAILED save. Yet you wanna make that the damage on a SUCCESSFUL save.
Look, I really am still trying to figure this out, but fixing Harm is extraordinarily difficult to dowithout breaking precdent and/or the spirit of the rules.
Cloudgatherer
First Post
Anubis said:
How about disintegration, finger of death, or phantasmal killer? They are save or die spells, bu you'll take damage (potentially more) if you make your save.
Not exactly what you are looking for, but that's what I thought of.
Ferox4
First Post
Anubis said:
Yes, I realize that this is not any easy fix. Your percentile-based fix is no different than a cap-based fix with regards to precedent and/or spirit of the game. They both seek to balance the power of the spell to its appropriate level. About the only thing most people seem to agree upon us the need for a saving throw.
The spell is called Harm and should do exactly that, not set something up for the quick kill. I personally like the damage inflicted to be based upon the character's caster level (10hp/level) and not on the percentage of the opponent's HP - but that's my own personal preference and, in the end, the only way to resolve this is to find the fix that best suits your campaign. LOL
Cheers,
F4
