If the gods are dead, what changes?

[Buttercup]

I've disallowed the cleric as a player class. At the end of the last session, the characters just topped a rise and got their first sight of a city. They're new arrivals to this world, so they have no expectations at all.

I'm toying with the idea that maybe all the gods are dead. If that were true, wouldn't some religions try to keep up appearances, either in the hopes of restoring their god or for job security? What else might happen?

What if the gods were just missing, or silent? So far, I've planted some hooks relating to a slavery ring, a corrupt son of a local ruler, a lost race of wizards, and a society of matriarchal minotaurs. Then I've hinted at a vicious and disgruntled indiginous population. I'm toying with the idea that all the gods have ceased taking any interest or showing their presence in any way, and that each race is blaming one or all of the others for this.

Any ideas you creative folks have will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Pyske]

Perhaps the gods have become fed up / bored with this world, and the PCs adventures are destined to regain their interest (for good or ill). Just a thought.

Regardless, I agree that there might be charlatans (possibly arcane casters). Healing items would reach artifact proportions / demand.

People might actually avoid war... we historically didn't, but we never had healing magic in the first place to miss. Perhaps the shock of its loss was enough to make people think twice about waging war... but probably not.

Lack of religion might create a philosophical rennaisance, as people struggle to find meaning for their lives. Nihilistic cults and appeasement cults might arise (appeasement cults wanting to convince the gods to come back).

As a counterpoint to the lack of war, someone would undoubtedly get blamed... perhaps the traditional enemies go to war with renewed fervor because their opponents "sins" drove away the gods. (And perhaps the fighting was what actually drove them away in the first place.)

If anything else occurs to me, I'll let you know.

. . . . . . . -- Eric

 

[DethStryke]

Going by the rule of thumb in D&D, without the specific god(dess) or diety, the cleric is limited to 1st and 2nd level spells.

I've always enjoyed the concept that for any divine power to exist, there have to be those who believe in them. Hence, the power of a god or goddess is directly linked to the number of people who actively worship them. That would make church wars interesting.... Kill the flock and the shepard goes with them.

This could also work in the reverse. Get enough people to believe in a god, then they exist. Perhaps some mortals are trying to overthrow the current patheon... perhaps a major divine war has erupted that spans more then one world, leaving your particular populace bereft of their presence. Imagine those bickering church's collective face when their war beliegured gods return to find the petty mortals fighting as well and exact retribution for their lack of faith!

 

[Buttercup]

How about this--what if one of the churches is trying to hide the fact that their god is dead, and is being run by a lich who pretends to be the god? Only a few of the highest level clerics would have to know. This wouldn't work if clerics were a playable class, but they aren't, so I'm free to come up with all sorts of weird stuff.

I thought that another church might have become sort of like the Salvation Army--they feed, clothe and otherwise care for the poor in shelters found in every large town and city.

And perhaps another one might be looking for a new deity.

 

[Doc_Subtlety]

Going by the rule of thumb in D&D, without the specific god(dess) or diety, the cleric is limited to 1st and 2nd level spells.

Not anymore. In 3E, Clerics don't have to have a god at all. (Actually, this was true as of 2E Planescape - it just made it into a PHB, this edition. )

Some thoughts:
- The older, deity dependent Clerics will try to stave off their loss of power as long as possible. Doesn't matter what alignment they are - they won't disappear quietly. (This might take the form of lying about what's happened, or concealing it entirely. But it's pretty guaranteed that they'll try *something*.)

- Many people will leave the church. Others will turn to crazy heresies, maybe even human sacrifice to try and get their gods back. There'll be some rioting. Things will get crazy, when the truth gets out.

- The church will ultimately endure a while despite all of this, in some diminished form.

- You'll see a surge of popularity for Druidism, and for Bards.

- New Clerics will eventually come along that are not deity dependent, unless you rule that ethos clerics don't exist. (How long this takes depends on the campaign. I ran a game where the gods died, and it took hundreds of years.)

 

[Warchild]

Well, if the gods are dead/took off, then it would pretty obvious pretty quick. If everyone is used to healing, clerical divination, and ressurection level magics, the clerics who have lost their power aren't going to be able to keep that under wraps for long. Might be an interesting advneture for the players, to find out why the church/churches are no longer dealing out magic spells (assuming they are trying to keep people from finding out why as long as posible). I could see some Clerics of the neutral/non-lawful churches trying to cash out before the word gets out. "The god(s) demand great payment and donations, before we once again ply our magics to your needs" As soon as they get payed, out the door they go!! That might be a good chase adventure as well.
This also has ramfications on other classes as well. If the gods ceased to exist, your going to have to go to Bards and Druids for your healing. That will change the complextion of your gaming and the make up of those classes in a campaign setting. Wizards would also ascend to the highest spellcaster position, without the threat/competition of the Clerics.
There would also be a lot of heresey going on and a lot of witch-like pacts made with outside powers, since thats the only way to get power other than arcane/druidic magic.

 

[Blueicus]

on the other hand...

Conversely, there may be some priests that will not notice the change and still have their divine powers. As is said in the PHB, some clerics don't worship gods directly yet still gain divine powers according to their strongest beliefs.

Perhaps, in this world some priests that are more dedicated to the ideals of a deity than the deity itself will retain their divine powers. They may also scorn all those who've lost their divine powers as a sign that there were many heretics working against the gods. For this they may see themselves as a group that is destined to return the beliefs and glory of the gods.

 

[Buttercup]

Blueicus, I like that! So we could have a hermit cleric who never noticed that anything had gone wrong. He's out in the wilderness doing what he always did, and when the party runs across him, and he still has all of his magic, everyone will get a big surprise. Hmmm.

 

[Darklone]

I am in the "druidic cults, sects and rituals will florish" camp. Nature beliefs still yield the expected results while clerics fail more and more (since those who aknowledge the death of the gods will doubt and therefore lose their power).

 

[wighair]

If the gods are dead there would be a lot of vacant portfolios lying around. I think the most powerful beings around would/could try to fill those spaces. A sort of "would-be" avatar war. Groups of followers pushing their champion to the fore, wars where the winner gets to be "god of war". Perhaps mages battle to get the control of magic and then bend the world to their only evil/good ends.

I don't have the deites and demigods book. Are there rules for achieveing these states?

Mel